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	<title>Comments on: The Day After Election Day</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53463</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Emily: In other words, no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily: In other words, no.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53424</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Elliot: One less homo on earth; one more in hell i guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliot: One less homo on earth; one more in hell i guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53423</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Emily: Do you really think a bullet in your head is going to help anything?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily: Do you really think a bullet in your head is going to help anything?</p>
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		<title>By: occono</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53416</link>
		<dc:creator>occono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can&#039;t there be a Constitutional Convention next year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t there be a Constitutional Convention next year?</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53411</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Iowa can&#039;t do anything until 2014, so no need to worry about that state yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iowa can&#8217;t do anything until 2014, so no need to worry about that state yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53410</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16318#comment-53410</guid>
		<description>we can run an outstanding campaign in a north-eastern state that is largely secular and still lose. What&#039;s the fu**ing point anymore? Just put a bullet in my skull. 

Really. I&#039;m serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we can run an outstanding campaign in a north-eastern state that is largely secular and still lose. What&#8217;s the fu**ing point anymore? Just put a bullet in my skull. </p>
<p>Really. I&#8217;m serious.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53319</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is a hidden story in last night&#039;s ME results.  Given the high turnout, which rivaled that of a midyear election and the extraordinary ground effort by No on 1, how is it possible that we wound up losing areas like Augusta, which we won in 2005 by substantial margins?  In every single town except one, we did worse last night than we did in 2005.  Where we won, we won by thinner margins than in 2005.  And where we lost, we lost by greater margins than in 2005. The overall effect was to turn a 2005 victory of 55-45 into a 53-47 loss, in spite of greater turnout.  That does not happen by accident.

I think the untold story is the Yes on 1 ground game.  The whole S4MM operation was very secretive.  I did not read a single internal campaign leak over the course of 4 months.  Their ground campaign is one giant black box.  Schubert claimed to have 100,000 people on the ground in CA on Election Day 2008 - 5 volunteers for each of CA&#039;s 20,000 precincts.  I saw no evidence of this in ME, but it is blindingly obvious that he had something on the ground in places like Augusta.  Were these people quietly recruited from Catholic churches?  Were they Mormons slipped into the state in the dead of night?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a hidden story in last night&#8217;s ME results.  Given the high turnout, which rivaled that of a midyear election and the extraordinary ground effort by No on 1, how is it possible that we wound up losing areas like Augusta, which we won in 2005 by substantial margins?  In every single town except one, we did worse last night than we did in 2005.  Where we won, we won by thinner margins than in 2005.  And where we lost, we lost by greater margins than in 2005. The overall effect was to turn a 2005 victory of 55-45 into a 53-47 loss, in spite of greater turnout.  That does not happen by accident.</p>
<p>I think the untold story is the Yes on 1 ground game.  The whole S4MM operation was very secretive.  I did not read a single internal campaign leak over the course of 4 months.  Their ground campaign is one giant black box.  Schubert claimed to have 100,000 people on the ground in CA on Election Day 2008 &#8211; 5 volunteers for each of CA&#8217;s 20,000 precincts.  I saw no evidence of this in ME, but it is blindingly obvious that he had something on the ground in places like Augusta.  Were these people quietly recruited from Catholic churches?  Were they Mormons slipped into the state in the dead of night?</p>
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		<title>By: AJD</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53315</link>
		<dc:creator>AJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s really hard for me to be optimistic when I see things like this.

Tristram is right: The theocratic fascists have yet another victory, and just as Prop. 8 proved they could win in a supposedly liberal and pro-gay state, Question 1 proves they can defeat a measure passed by a state legislature while fighting a campaign that is both better-funded and far more competent than No On 8 was. We should be prepared for the possibility that our victories in Iowa, New Hampshire and even Vermont may be short-lived.

Let&#039;s be realistic. A majority of Americans still hate and fear us. We can blame the lying and scare tactics of groups like NOM, but there&#039;s one thing we can&#039;t deny: They work. And they work for a reason, because the people whom they are able to persuade were biased against us from the beginning and already saw our relationships as a threat. All they needed was a little push.

I read an article the other day in which a woman in Maine who said she had gay relatives and nothing against gay people, but still planned to vote &quot;Yes.&quot; Likewise, my partner&#039;s fundamentalist Christian brother and his family knows about us and sees us pretty frequently, but would likely vote to ban gay marriage if given the chance also.

I really think our best hope is that the Supreme Court will rule that civil rights aren&#039;t a popularity contest, but that&#039;s obviously not a sure thing. We should be open to the possibility that we&#039;ll probably have to wait another 20-30 years before having full equality in this country, while Canadians already have it... 

The more I look at it, the more I regard this country&#039;s claims to being the world&#039;s greatest nation as being sort of like Budweiser&#039;s service mark &quot;The King of Beers.&quot; It&#039;s an empty phrase that ignores how seriously behind the curve we really are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really hard for me to be optimistic when I see things like this.</p>
<p>Tristram is right: The theocratic fascists have yet another victory, and just as Prop. 8 proved they could win in a supposedly liberal and pro-gay state, Question 1 proves they can defeat a measure passed by a state legislature while fighting a campaign that is both better-funded and far more competent than No On 8 was. We should be prepared for the possibility that our victories in Iowa, New Hampshire and even Vermont may be short-lived.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be realistic. A majority of Americans still hate and fear us. We can blame the lying and scare tactics of groups like NOM, but there&#8217;s one thing we can&#8217;t deny: They work. And they work for a reason, because the people whom they are able to persuade were biased against us from the beginning and already saw our relationships as a threat. All they needed was a little push.</p>
<p>I read an article the other day in which a woman in Maine who said she had gay relatives and nothing against gay people, but still planned to vote &#8220;Yes.&#8221; Likewise, my partner&#8217;s fundamentalist Christian brother and his family knows about us and sees us pretty frequently, but would likely vote to ban gay marriage if given the chance also.</p>
<p>I really think our best hope is that the Supreme Court will rule that civil rights aren&#8217;t a popularity contest, but that&#8217;s obviously not a sure thing. We should be open to the possibility that we&#8217;ll probably have to wait another 20-30 years before having full equality in this country, while Canadians already have it&#8230; </p>
<p>The more I look at it, the more I regard this country&#8217;s claims to being the world&#8217;s greatest nation as being sort of like Budweiser&#8217;s service mark &#8220;The King of Beers.&#8221; It&#8217;s an empty phrase that ignores how seriously behind the curve we really are.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stellon</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53313</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stellon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I disagree that ME necessarily has a dire impact on non-referenda states like NY and NJ.  One thing has been shown consistently:  while gay marriage loses on a direct vote, it is not an issue that impacts legislative contests.  So there is no reason for the hacks in NY and NJ to care about a ME People&#039;s Veto.  It will all come down to the usual horse-trading and favor-swapping.  

However, yesterday&#039;s defeat clearly has to give pause to the repeal Prop 8 movement.  Since it is unlikely that the repeal 8 people could do any better in messaging and GOTV than the No on 1 people, they may need to reconsider 2012 and start pondering 2018, by which time enough Prop 8 voters will have died for a rematch to make sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that ME necessarily has a dire impact on non-referenda states like NY and NJ.  One thing has been shown consistently:  while gay marriage loses on a direct vote, it is not an issue that impacts legislative contests.  So there is no reason for the hacks in NY and NJ to care about a ME People&#8217;s Veto.  It will all come down to the usual horse-trading and favor-swapping.  </p>
<p>However, yesterday&#8217;s defeat clearly has to give pause to the repeal Prop 8 movement.  Since it is unlikely that the repeal 8 people could do any better in messaging and GOTV than the No on 1 people, they may need to reconsider 2012 and start pondering 2018, by which time enough Prop 8 voters will have died for a rematch to make sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris McCoy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/04/16318/comment-page-1#comment-53312</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris McCoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16318#comment-53312</guid>
		<description>If we are to win in future states/battles, we need to learn from both California and Maine and squash the &quot;gay = pedophilia&quot; tactic that the Christianists are using to spread fear and hate against our community.

Does anyone really think that Brown v Board of Education would have stood up to popular vote at the time?

As I said before. Stop playing Mr Nice Gay. Act Up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we are to win in future states/battles, we need to learn from both California and Maine and squash the &#8220;gay = pedophilia&#8221; tactic that the Christianists are using to spread fear and hate against our community.</p>
<p>Does anyone really think that Brown v Board of Education would have stood up to popular vote at the time?</p>
<p>As I said before. Stop playing Mr Nice Gay. Act Up.</p>
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