If it was not for Christians the “gay” rights movement would be DOA. The liberal beliefs of Christians have allowed progress to date.

If you believe different, find a country that is untouched by Christianity, and there are many, but find just one where “gay” people can wed. Hint: There are none.

Yes, indeed, that is true. And those countries that have been Christian the longest tend to have a greater respect for the rights of gay people.

You see, one of the underlying principles of the faith is that all are equal in the sight of God. And that all are to be treated as we each wish to be treated.

Over time, those who were inculcated with these values have come to see society in just such a way. And as troubling issues arose, those most Christian were able to apply these principles. Those who, as Paul talks about, have set aside childish things are able to – as adults do – stop seeing “the rules” and instead see the principles.

And those mature Christians were able to see race as immaterial and gender as inconsequential and orientation as negligible in the way that they treat each other. Even in the way they see each other as brother and sister.

Of course, not all Christians are mature. Some, especially in “newly Christian” areas in Africa and Asia are still in the “what are the rules” phase of childish approach to Christianity.

But in time they, along with the less adult Christians in the US, will apply the principles and learn to treat their gay brothers and sisters with dignity and equality.

“If it was not for Christians the “gay” rights movement would be DOA. The liberal beliefs of Christians have allowed progress to date.

‘If you believe different, find a country that is untouched by Christianity, and there are many, but find just one where “gay” people can wed. Hint: There are none.’

It’s certainly true that gays weren’t treated any better under atheistic communist regimes, and that usually they were treated much worse.

It seems to me that, if there is an inference to be drawn from this, it is that, despite the fundamentalists who want to cling grimly to the more primitive and retarded elements of morality to be found in the Bible and particularly in the Mosaic Law, Christianity contains within it the seeds of something essentially progressive.

“of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent busybodies. The robber baron secretly may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. To be ‘cured’ against one’s will, and cured of states which we may not regard as disease, is to be put on a level with those who have not yet reached the age of reason…. You start being ‘kind’ to people before you have considered their rights and then force upon them supposed kindnesses which they in fact had a right to refuse, and finally kindnesses which no-one but you will recognise as kindnesses and which the recipient will feel as abominable cruelties.”

And as Ben in Oakland had to say to someone who just had to express his sincere religious beliefs:

“You’re right. It doesn’t make you a bigot. It makes you a busybody, expressing your opinion of other people’s business when it is none of yours, and who is obsessed with someone else’s sex life enough to comment on it.

What makes someone a bigot is when you denigrate a whole group of people whom you don’t know and clearly know nothing about, when you make it your business to make their lives as difficult and unpleasant as possible, to deny them what you take for granted for yourself, to insist that in every legal way, you have a right to express your disapproval on their backs, spewing hate in a church and calling it love, telling any lie, no matter how vicious and untrue, just because it makes YOU feel better.

That’s what makes someone a bigot. Only you can tell whether you are a bigot or just a busybody.”

Susan believes what she says, and so do many other people.

That does not make them haters or bigots.

Indeed. Believing that what one says is true is not what makes one a hater or bigot. Choosing preconceived biases over rational thought, observation of fact, and introspection is what makes one a hater and a bigot.

We all have biases. We all are raised with stereotypes and preconceptions about others.

Many of us decide that we will review those preconceptions and biases and see if they measure up to reality. We apply principles and ideals to measure our notions and see if they are consistent with what we believe or hold true.

Others will measure their biases through the vague notions of “tradition” or “religious belief” or “everyone says so”. Although they usually think that these are objective measures, most ignore the fact that there are countering traditions and religious teachings and other communities that do not share their biases. Some give true consideration to counter-claims. But most simply say, “well, this is MY religion, culture, tradition which I will not question”. Such persons are foolish and weak minded. But they are not haters and if the traditions or religious doctrine or community opinion changes slowly enough, they can adjust along with it.

And then there are those who invest in their biases and preconception. They may justify their beliefs with an appeal to religion or political affiliation, but the basis of their stance is more grounded in animus and fear. Should their faith leaders unanimously announce that the need to abandon such biases, they would still hold them as treasured and simply find another faith leader who agreed with them. If politicians started finding accommodation for the subject of their biases, they’ll denounce them and seek to replace them with those who are “real” party believers. These are the haters and bigots.

It is up to each of us to decide how we will respond to the biases and preconceptions with which we were raised.

And yes, it does make her a bigot. She uses her religion to look down on and deny rights to people not following it. That is the very definition of bigotry.

That does not make them haters or bigots.

In fact describing them as such only confirms that their initial thoughts are correct.

People who label others as hateful or bigots because they have opposing views, in reality are engaging in projection behavior.

If it was not for Christians the “gay” rights movement would be DOA. The liberal beliefs of Christians have allowed progress to date.

If you believe different, find a country that is untouched by Christianity, and there are many, but find just one where “gay” people can wed. Hint: There are none.

All it will take for the media to walk away from the “gay” cause is ONE, one fatwa against homosexuality by a prominent Muslim scholar or Imam. All are frightened to death of Muslims.

This should go on a t-shirt. Maybe a small “@ ant-gay christians” somewhere in there.

It feels as if Susan copy pasted that from somewhere… Maybe she paid a visit to the AFA or Exodus. *shrug

I will make one small correction, necessary, but hopefully, witty.

You wrote: “…admit that you hate the principles on which this nation was founded.”

She’s a good Christian. She doesn’t hate the principles upon which this nation was founded.

She hates what they DO.