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	<title>Comments on: NOM&#8217;s biblical Illiteracy</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55187</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55187</guid>
		<description>Aaron,
That&#039;s the thing gays have never championed or lobbied to reduce or eliminate the rights of straight people. 


In fact, nothing we are fighting for takes anything away from straight people.

except one thing.

Privilege.

See, equality levels the playing field.  And when the playing field is level, all those special perks of being part of the ruling class are no longer perks you get to lord over others, or tuck yourself into bed at night with that feeling of &quot;at least I&#039;m not one of THEM.&quot;

These people in power never had a right to those privileges, never really earned them, but feel they are entitled to them nonetheless.

Christian Fundamentalists used to be part of the mainstream.  They could trust that everyone felt like them and everyone disdained the same people as them.  

Now that they are losing power, now that cutural and society are shifting they&#039;re outraged that the rules of the game has changed and that they actually have to justify themselves, explain themselves, and treat other people like...well...people. 

There are all these written and unwritten rules that we&#039;re not following, and they are PISSED about it.

They&#039;re not losing rights, they&#039;re losing the mainstream, they&#039;re losing their privileges.  
They can&#039;t come up with one, legitimate, logical, legal, constitutional reason for their opposition to equality --- NOT ONE!  They&#039;re mad they even have to justify their bigotted views to us in even the most simple ways.

I mean, don&#039;t we get it? They&#039;re the ones in charge, and that&#039;s the way things are supposed to be!  They&#039;re not supposed to change, we are, to suit them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,<br />
That&#8217;s the thing gays have never championed or lobbied to reduce or eliminate the rights of straight people. </p>
<p>In fact, nothing we are fighting for takes anything away from straight people.</p>
<p>except one thing.</p>
<p>Privilege.</p>
<p>See, equality levels the playing field.  And when the playing field is level, all those special perks of being part of the ruling class are no longer perks you get to lord over others, or tuck yourself into bed at night with that feeling of &#8220;at least I&#8217;m not one of THEM.&#8221;</p>
<p>These people in power never had a right to those privileges, never really earned them, but feel they are entitled to them nonetheless.</p>
<p>Christian Fundamentalists used to be part of the mainstream.  They could trust that everyone felt like them and everyone disdained the same people as them.  </p>
<p>Now that they are losing power, now that cutural and society are shifting they&#8217;re outraged that the rules of the game has changed and that they actually have to justify themselves, explain themselves, and treat other people like&#8230;well&#8230;people. </p>
<p>There are all these written and unwritten rules that we&#8217;re not following, and they are PISSED about it.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re not losing rights, they&#8217;re losing the mainstream, they&#8217;re losing their privileges.<br />
They can&#8217;t come up with one, legitimate, logical, legal, constitutional reason for their opposition to equality &#8212; NOT ONE!  They&#8217;re mad they even have to justify their bigotted views to us in even the most simple ways.</p>
<p>I mean, don&#8217;t we get it? They&#8217;re the ones in charge, and that&#8217;s the way things are supposed to be!  They&#8217;re not supposed to change, we are, to suit them.</p>
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		<title>By: Ephilei</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55163</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephilei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55163</guid>
		<description>Timothy&#039;s exegesis is correct. The Beatitudes aren&#039;t commandments to be followed, they state what happens in the world regardless of human intervention. The active party in these verses is God. God comfort, fill, show mercy, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy&#8217;s exegesis is correct. The Beatitudes aren&#8217;t commandments to be followed, they state what happens in the world regardless of human intervention. The active party in these verses is God. God comfort, fill, show mercy, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55113</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55113</guid>
		<description>&quot;One final note: do you not find the last line of the Biblical passage a tad bit ironic?

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

The persecutors are you! It’s like Jesus knew all of this 2000 years ago! How prescient.&quot;

How interesting! As a gay Christian, I interpreted it in a totally different manner. You see, if you think about it, all we really want are additional rights which have no effect upon you. Gay marriage and hate crime laws could be ratified in every single state, and, really, your life wouldn&#039;t change one iota. Meanwhile, I have been forced to watch representatives of the Body of Christ (of which I am a member) make up reasons why we don&#039;t deserve to be given even the most basic protections. A good example are those who claim that we are exaggerating about how bad the persecution against glbt people, when, in fact, the FBI figures are quite clear (please, look them up). I don&#039;t need to list more examples, most of them are on this website.  In a similar vein, I am often told by ignorant christians that simply being gay is enough for me to burn in hell. I forgive them, they are ignorant. But, for me, this verse relates quite well to the persecution that I have encountered from people more or less of the same mindset as yourself. I really don&#039;t think we are persecuting you, as far as I can tell, we are simply asking for the freedom to pursue happiness as we understand it. I certainly have no wish to limit your rights to say as you will.

Peace, Love and Joy, my brother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One final note: do you not find the last line of the Biblical passage a tad bit ironic?</p>
<p>Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.</p>
<p>The persecutors are you! It’s like Jesus knew all of this 2000 years ago! How prescient.&#8221;</p>
<p>How interesting! As a gay Christian, I interpreted it in a totally different manner. You see, if you think about it, all we really want are additional rights which have no effect upon you. Gay marriage and hate crime laws could be ratified in every single state, and, really, your life wouldn&#8217;t change one iota. Meanwhile, I have been forced to watch representatives of the Body of Christ (of which I am a member) make up reasons why we don&#8217;t deserve to be given even the most basic protections. A good example are those who claim that we are exaggerating about how bad the persecution against glbt people, when, in fact, the FBI figures are quite clear (please, look them up). I don&#8217;t need to list more examples, most of them are on this website.  In a similar vein, I am often told by ignorant christians that simply being gay is enough for me to burn in hell. I forgive them, they are ignorant. But, for me, this verse relates quite well to the persecution that I have encountered from people more or less of the same mindset as yourself. I really don&#8217;t think we are persecuting you, as far as I can tell, we are simply asking for the freedom to pursue happiness as we understand it. I certainly have no wish to limit your rights to say as you will.</p>
<p>Peace, Love and Joy, my brother.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen in Ireland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55096</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen in Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55096</guid>
		<description>Ben, I think that one thing that you will find at this blog (BTB) is that commentators who disagree will find their remarks not only posted but responded to with reason and honesty, where the true facts are not only presented but verified with links to original documents. You will be heard, and answered. The answers may not be to your liking, but your viewpoints ARE heard and retained here by Timothy and his fellow writers.

However, during the recent campaign to affirm equality in Maine, many &#039;pro-traditional marriage&#039; sites DELETED, without response or reason, numerous polite posts and responses from the gay community which tried to lay out the refuting argument. NOM, AFTAH and other site of similar ilk are awash with &#039;affirmative&#039; comments, many of which are laced with homophobic and bigotted language.

The gay community in the US have never tried to deny any other citizen&#039;s rights. They have never denied them their humanity and dignity under the law of the US constitution. 

Unlike NOM and the people you espouse.

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.&quot;

I believe that the &#039;people&#039; referenced in the above are the fundementalist Christian activists who use Christ&#039;s teaching in such twisted and intolerant verbiage against the gay community. Christian fundementalism has hijacked a tolerant, embracing Jesus just to abuse his words to their own end - and we would like Him back please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, I think that one thing that you will find at this blog (BTB) is that commentators who disagree will find their remarks not only posted but responded to with reason and honesty, where the true facts are not only presented but verified with links to original documents. You will be heard, and answered. The answers may not be to your liking, but your viewpoints ARE heard and retained here by Timothy and his fellow writers.</p>
<p>However, during the recent campaign to affirm equality in Maine, many &#8216;pro-traditional marriage&#8217; sites DELETED, without response or reason, numerous polite posts and responses from the gay community which tried to lay out the refuting argument. NOM, AFTAH and other site of similar ilk are awash with &#8216;affirmative&#8217; comments, many of which are laced with homophobic and bigotted language.</p>
<p>The gay community in the US have never tried to deny any other citizen&#8217;s rights. They have never denied them their humanity and dignity under the law of the US constitution. </p>
<p>Unlike NOM and the people you espouse.</p>
<p>“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe that the &#8216;people&#8217; referenced in the above are the fundementalist Christian activists who use Christ&#8217;s teaching in such twisted and intolerant verbiage against the gay community. Christian fundementalism has hijacked a tolerant, embracing Jesus just to abuse his words to their own end &#8211; and we would like Him back please.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55092</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55092</guid>
		<description>Ben,

&lt;blockquote&gt;How about “Blessed are the merciful for they will be show mercy”? Perhaps that is what he was referring to.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I doubt that you were being ironic.  I don&#039;t sense that level of sophistication in your comments.

But had you been, I could have shared your amusement.  Because, indeed, mercy is the least of NOMs intentions.

Gay couples have provided legitimate complaints about how their lives are inhibited and miseries are imposed upon them.  We all have heard of obscenities such as denying hospital visitation, unequal taxation, separation from children, and even refusing to release the body of the deceased.

Gay couples plead for a way to live our lives free of encumbrances in a manner that those who oppress us take for granted.

And the response of NOM and the anti-gay industry is, &quot;No mercy!!&quot;

&lt;blockquote&gt;“They are saying to all of us: if you believe that marriage is the union of a man and a woman you are a bigot, and we will treat you as such, and punish your religious institutions.”

How can you contest this? Isn’t that the point of this blog? Anyone with the slightest objection to a bizarre, unnatural behavior that (until very, very recently) was universally rejected is now some kind of bigot? Isn’t that exactly the message of the Box Turtle Bulletin?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, of course not.

Many, many people are not supporters of marriage equality for reasons other than bigotry.  

Some fear change, others see this in terms of &quot;those city people are pushing their values on me&quot;.  Some folks just don&#039;t know any gay people and have no perspective from which to reconsider presumptions.  Others rely on the advice of their religious leaders or community leaders.  Some are genuinely concerned about children or culture.  And some have deeply held religious convictions that may be in conflict with their observations.

These are not bigoted responses.  Nor do we define them as such.

In fact, you&#039;ll not find that the authors at BTB refer to many people at all as bigots.  Unlike NOM at its adherents, we believe that words have meaning and that truth and honesty are more important than spewing rhetoric.

But there is such a thing as bigotry.  And when it occurs, it&#039;s worth noting.

Ben, bigotry is when you measure your response based upon what group it impacts.  When you deny rights according to whom you dislike.  When you assume heinous accusations to be true solely because you want them to be.  When you care nothing for principle and only care about harming that group you have assigned as &quot;enemy&quot;.

You need to ask yourself, Ben, are your objections to gay equality based on principles you apply to all, or are you just expressing animus to a selected group of individuals based on a shared attribute?

Because while many many people are not bigoted in their opposition to my equality, some are.  Are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<blockquote><p>How about “Blessed are the merciful for they will be show mercy”? Perhaps that is what he was referring to.</p></blockquote>
<p>I doubt that you were being ironic.  I don&#8217;t sense that level of sophistication in your comments.</p>
<p>But had you been, I could have shared your amusement.  Because, indeed, mercy is the least of NOMs intentions.</p>
<p>Gay couples have provided legitimate complaints about how their lives are inhibited and miseries are imposed upon them.  We all have heard of obscenities such as denying hospital visitation, unequal taxation, separation from children, and even refusing to release the body of the deceased.</p>
<p>Gay couples plead for a way to live our lives free of encumbrances in a manner that those who oppress us take for granted.</p>
<p>And the response of NOM and the anti-gay industry is, &#8220;No mercy!!&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>“They are saying to all of us: if you believe that marriage is the union of a man and a woman you are a bigot, and we will treat you as such, and punish your religious institutions.”</p>
<p>How can you contest this? Isn’t that the point of this blog? Anyone with the slightest objection to a bizarre, unnatural behavior that (until very, very recently) was universally rejected is now some kind of bigot? Isn’t that exactly the message of the Box Turtle Bulletin?</p></blockquote>
<p>No, of course not.</p>
<p>Many, many people are not supporters of marriage equality for reasons other than bigotry.  </p>
<p>Some fear change, others see this in terms of &#8220;those city people are pushing their values on me&#8221;.  Some folks just don&#8217;t know any gay people and have no perspective from which to reconsider presumptions.  Others rely on the advice of their religious leaders or community leaders.  Some are genuinely concerned about children or culture.  And some have deeply held religious convictions that may be in conflict with their observations.</p>
<p>These are not bigoted responses.  Nor do we define them as such.</p>
<p>In fact, you&#8217;ll not find that the authors at BTB refer to many people at all as bigots.  Unlike NOM at its adherents, we believe that words have meaning and that truth and honesty are more important than spewing rhetoric.</p>
<p>But there is such a thing as bigotry.  And when it occurs, it&#8217;s worth noting.</p>
<p>Ben, bigotry is when you measure your response based upon what group it impacts.  When you deny rights according to whom you dislike.  When you assume heinous accusations to be true solely because you want them to be.  When you care nothing for principle and only care about harming that group you have assigned as &#8220;enemy&#8221;.</p>
<p>You need to ask yourself, Ben, are your objections to gay equality based on principles you apply to all, or are you just expressing animus to a selected group of individuals based on a shared attribute?</p>
<p>Because while many many people are not bigoted in their opposition to my equality, some are.  Are you?</p>
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		<title>By: JimInMa</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55079</link>
		<dc:creator>JimInMa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55079</guid>
		<description>Go tell a black person that you think they&#039;re evil and don&#039;t deserve a constitutional right to get married, and you&#039;ll be smacked in the face and probably arrested.
But 40 years ago you would have done just that and had the &quot;majority&quot; agree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go tell a black person that you think they&#8217;re evil and don&#8217;t deserve a constitutional right to get married, and you&#8217;ll be smacked in the face and probably arrested.<br />
But 40 years ago you would have done just that and had the &#8220;majority&#8221; agree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55074</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55074</guid>
		<description>Ben,
What do you know about your heterosexual neighbor&#039;s behavior?
How do you qualify that they are moral, normal or even people worthy of marriage at face value?

   You might think homosexuality is bizarre and unnatural, but you KNOW that or are CERTAIN of that....how?

   And even then, how do YOU or any other human being from any other primitive, barbaric and reactionary 6,000 year old culture is so certain it&#039;s bad, evil or not a part of nature&#039;s obvious variations and diversity?

     I shouldn&#039;t have to go there to reach SO far back in history to remind you that things have changed. We are a culture that has in just the last 40 years attended to understanding that there is no amount cruelty or discrimination due an entire group of people for a distinct difference, but one that does, nor causes harm in or out of proportion to the inverse of their sexuality (heterosexuality).

     You don&#039;t know a thing about your heterosexual neighbors, but being hetero is enough for you to judge them worthy human beings of every right and protection the Constitution and Bill of Rights has to offer?

  And homosexuality is the only thing you know is worthy of exclusion from the same?

  Ben, to say yes to the latter DOES require bigotry. Bigotry that is incompatible with common sense.
Gays and lesbians, rightly, are requiring you to be consistent in how you judge your hetero neighbors.
 For this country to commit to it&#039;s own mission statement.
Gay people have been around since humanity itself began.
 Religious belief has been fluid, cruel and inconsistent and isn&#039;t enforceable in this country, nor should it be.

     Religious belief has historically been more dangerous to mankind than homosexuality.
And I&#039;d rather put my faith in the compassionate track record of equality and assumed freedom, thank you.

   You wouldn&#039;t be able to be who YOU are without it either.
So have some respect for those gay men and women who understand all that better than you and Brian Brown apparently do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,<br />
What do you know about your heterosexual neighbor&#8217;s behavior?<br />
How do you qualify that they are moral, normal or even people worthy of marriage at face value?</p>
<p>   You might think homosexuality is bizarre and unnatural, but you KNOW that or are CERTAIN of that&#8230;.how?</p>
<p>   And even then, how do YOU or any other human being from any other primitive, barbaric and reactionary 6,000 year old culture is so certain it&#8217;s bad, evil or not a part of nature&#8217;s obvious variations and diversity?</p>
<p>     I shouldn&#8217;t have to go there to reach SO far back in history to remind you that things have changed. We are a culture that has in just the last 40 years attended to understanding that there is no amount cruelty or discrimination due an entire group of people for a distinct difference, but one that does, nor causes harm in or out of proportion to the inverse of their sexuality (heterosexuality).</p>
<p>     You don&#8217;t know a thing about your heterosexual neighbors, but being hetero is enough for you to judge them worthy human beings of every right and protection the Constitution and Bill of Rights has to offer?</p>
<p>  And homosexuality is the only thing you know is worthy of exclusion from the same?</p>
<p>  Ben, to say yes to the latter DOES require bigotry. Bigotry that is incompatible with common sense.<br />
Gays and lesbians, rightly, are requiring you to be consistent in how you judge your hetero neighbors.<br />
 For this country to commit to it&#8217;s own mission statement.<br />
Gay people have been around since humanity itself began.<br />
 Religious belief has been fluid, cruel and inconsistent and isn&#8217;t enforceable in this country, nor should it be.</p>
<p>     Religious belief has historically been more dangerous to mankind than homosexuality.<br />
And I&#8217;d rather put my faith in the compassionate track record of equality and assumed freedom, thank you.</p>
<p>   You wouldn&#8217;t be able to be who YOU are without it either.<br />
So have some respect for those gay men and women who understand all that better than you and Brian Brown apparently do.</p>
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		<title>By: Donnchadh</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55068</link>
		<dc:creator>Donnchadh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55068</guid>
		<description>Many cultures -the Masai, Confucian China, several native American peoples- have or had various degrees of recognition of homosexual or homogendered sexual unions. And no, that&#039;s not the same thing.

Wherever Christian and Islamic missionaries went, they stamped out these practices. Radical minorities imposing their definition of marriage, anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many cultures -the Masai, Confucian China, several native American peoples- have or had various degrees of recognition of homosexual or homogendered sexual unions. And no, that&#8217;s not the same thing.</p>
<p>Wherever Christian and Islamic missionaries went, they stamped out these practices. Radical minorities imposing their definition of marriage, anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55064</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55064</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“They are saying to all of us: if you believe that marriage is the union of a man and a woman you are a bigot, and we will treat you as such, and punish your religious institutions.”

How can you contest this? &lt;/i&gt;

Simple, Ben, it&#039;s a lie and it&#039;s wrong.

My parents are married in a &quot;union of a man and a woman&quot; and I believe in it.  I don&#039;t think they&#039;re bigots.

Gay people don&#039;t object to marriage being the union of a man and a woman -- we object to the notion that marriage is &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;ONLY&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; the union of a man and a woman.  There is a huge difference one you, NOM, and many bigots don&#039;t get.  It&#039;s not bigotry to believe marriage is the union of a man and woman it&#039;s bigotry to believe that marriage is &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;ONLY&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; the union of a man and a woman. It&#039;s bigotry to point to an entire class of people and say &quot;your relationships don&#039;t count.&quot; Especially when there&#039;s no reason you can apply to gay people that doesn&#039;t apply in some way to straight people. 

&lt;i&gt;Isn’t that the point of this blog?&lt;/i&gt;

You&#039;ve not read much have you?  The purpose and goals of this blog are to act as a refutation of misinformation about LGBT issues and to forment factual discussions about LGBT issues -- or at least that&#039;s my understanding. 

&lt;i&gt;Anyone with the slightest objection to a bizarre, unnatural behavior that (until very, very recently) was universally rejected is now some kind of bigot?&lt;/i&gt;

Also factually inaccurate.  During the elizabethan age, it was not unusual for aristocrats to have male lovers and for them to be very public about it.  Shakespeare wrote about half his sonnets about his male lover. There is also evidence throughout history that certain tribes and cultures have accepted, in one way or another, LGBT people.  Native Americans often made LGBT people their Shamans because it was believed they were more spiritually connected and special. Universally rejected?  Hardly.

And no, bigotry isn&#039;t objection. A bigot, as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.merriam-webster.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Merriam-Webster&lt;/a&gt; notes is &quot;: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance&quot;

And just in case you don&#039;t know what tolerance is:

&quot;2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one&#039;s own b : the act of allowing something : toleration&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“They are saying to all of us: if you believe that marriage is the union of a man and a woman you are a bigot, and we will treat you as such, and punish your religious institutions.”</p>
<p>How can you contest this? </i></p>
<p>Simple, Ben, it&#8217;s a lie and it&#8217;s wrong.</p>
<p>My parents are married in a &#8220;union of a man and a woman&#8221; and I believe in it.  I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re bigots.</p>
<p>Gay people don&#8217;t object to marriage being the union of a man and a woman &#8212; we object to the notion that marriage is <i><b>ONLY</b></i> the union of a man and a woman.  There is a huge difference one you, NOM, and many bigots don&#8217;t get.  It&#8217;s not bigotry to believe marriage is the union of a man and woman it&#8217;s bigotry to believe that marriage is <i><b>ONLY</b></i> the union of a man and a woman. It&#8217;s bigotry to point to an entire class of people and say &#8220;your relationships don&#8217;t count.&#8221; Especially when there&#8217;s no reason you can apply to gay people that doesn&#8217;t apply in some way to straight people. </p>
<p><i>Isn’t that the point of this blog?</i></p>
<p>You&#8217;ve not read much have you?  The purpose and goals of this blog are to act as a refutation of misinformation about LGBT issues and to forment factual discussions about LGBT issues &#8212; or at least that&#8217;s my understanding. </p>
<p><i>Anyone with the slightest objection to a bizarre, unnatural behavior that (until very, very recently) was universally rejected is now some kind of bigot?</i></p>
<p>Also factually inaccurate.  During the elizabethan age, it was not unusual for aristocrats to have male lovers and for them to be very public about it.  Shakespeare wrote about half his sonnets about his male lover. There is also evidence throughout history that certain tribes and cultures have accepted, in one way or another, LGBT people.  Native Americans often made LGBT people their Shamans because it was believed they were more spiritually connected and special. Universally rejected?  Hardly.</p>
<p>And no, bigotry isn&#8217;t objection. A bigot, as <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/" rel="nofollow">Merriam-Webster</a> notes is &#8220;: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance&#8221;</p>
<p>And just in case you don&#8217;t know what tolerance is:</p>
<p>&#8220;2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one&#8217;s own b : the act of allowing something : toleration&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: R Holmes</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/19/16848/comment-page-1#comment-55062</link>
		<dc:creator>R Holmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16848#comment-55062</guid>
		<description>&quot;Anyone with the slightest objection to a bizarre, unnatural behavior that (until very, very recently) was universally rejected...&quot;

Wow - has anyone ever managed to display ingorance of both history and biology in so few words?  This must be some kind of record.

Go Ben!  *standing ovation*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Anyone with the slightest objection to a bizarre, unnatural behavior that (until very, very recently) was universally rejected&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow &#8211; has anyone ever managed to display ingorance of both history and biology in so few words?  This must be some kind of record.</p>
<p>Go Ben!  *standing ovation*</p>
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