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	<title>Comments on: The Baptist Standard calls out Texas Baptists on their hypocrisy</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55309</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55309</guid>
		<description>Mark,

I think that we all probably have in our lives some person, perhaps a relative or a neighbor or a co-worker, who has views that we find reprehensible. I know that I do.

And each of us have to decide for ourselves whether we should reprimand this person, shun them, oust them from social company, ignore them, seek to change their views, or just exactly how to interact in social settings.  And for each of us, the decision is personal.

From the outside, we can declare, &quot;Well! They should just denounce the bigots and be done with it!&quot;  And sometimes that is the right approach.

But it isn&#039;t our call to make.  I let those within the American Baptist Churches decide whether they can remain in communion with those who do not support us.  They know them better than I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>I think that we all probably have in our lives some person, perhaps a relative or a neighbor or a co-worker, who has views that we find reprehensible. I know that I do.</p>
<p>And each of us have to decide for ourselves whether we should reprimand this person, shun them, oust them from social company, ignore them, seek to change their views, or just exactly how to interact in social settings.  And for each of us, the decision is personal.</p>
<p>From the outside, we can declare, &#8220;Well! They should just denounce the bigots and be done with it!&#8221;  And sometimes that is the right approach.</p>
<p>But it isn&#8217;t our call to make.  I let those within the American Baptist Churches decide whether they can remain in communion with those who do not support us.  They know them better than I do.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55299</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55299</guid>
		<description>Tim:

I suppose the American Baptist position is better than the Southern Baptist one, but would you belong to a church which officially considered interracial marriages to be sinful, but allowed individuals and congregations to dissent?  Why would you want &quot;communion&quot; with bigots?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim:</p>
<p>I suppose the American Baptist position is better than the Southern Baptist one, but would you belong to a church which officially considered interracial marriages to be sinful, but allowed individuals and congregations to dissent?  Why would you want &#8220;communion&#8221; with bigots?</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55236</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55236</guid>
		<description>My apologies for not being clearer that &quot;Baptist&quot; includes non-SBC Baptists.

While no Baptist organization that I know of is considered an ally to our community, there are several individual Baptist churches that see God&#039;s revelation in the working of their own community to be inclusive of gay people and who are religious, community, and political voices for our inclusion in both the body of faith and the body of the nation.

To the best of my knowledge, the American Baptists, while officially opposed to the &quot;sin of homosexuality&quot; do allow those who disagree with the majority to be included in communion.  Unlike Southern Baptists - who believe that simply not reviling gays at every opportunity is a sin worthy of excommunication - the American Baptists are willing to let those who find gay people to be worthy children of God (as they are) to be errant brothers with whom they can still find commonality.

And they have lost members - even entire regions - because they were unwilling to expel congregations who were not adequately condemnatory.  (For many, it seems that being anti-gay is a core belief right along with the trinity, virgin birth, and resurrection of Christ). 

And for their courageous inclusion, I am grateful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies for not being clearer that &#8220;Baptist&#8221; includes non-SBC Baptists.</p>
<p>While no Baptist organization that I know of is considered an ally to our community, there are several individual Baptist churches that see God&#8217;s revelation in the working of their own community to be inclusive of gay people and who are religious, community, and political voices for our inclusion in both the body of faith and the body of the nation.</p>
<p>To the best of my knowledge, the American Baptists, while officially opposed to the &#8220;sin of homosexuality&#8221; do allow those who disagree with the majority to be included in communion.  Unlike Southern Baptists &#8211; who believe that simply not reviling gays at every opportunity is a sin worthy of excommunication &#8211; the American Baptists are willing to let those who find gay people to be worthy children of God (as they are) to be errant brothers with whom they can still find commonality.</p>
<p>And they have lost members &#8211; even entire regions &#8211; because they were unwilling to expel congregations who were not adequately condemnatory.  (For many, it seems that being anti-gay is a core belief right along with the trinity, virgin birth, and resurrection of Christ). </p>
<p>And for their courageous inclusion, I am grateful.</p>
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		<title>By: JimInMa</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55227</link>
		<dc:creator>JimInMa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55227</guid>
		<description>Well, I for one was born Italian-American.  But now that I&#039;m grown up and an adult, I choose to be an African-American because being white is a sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I for one was born Italian-American.  But now that I&#8217;m grown up and an adult, I choose to be an African-American because being white is a sin.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan L</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55226</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55226</guid>
		<description>I agree Richard, though I have a small quibble: while you&#039;re right that there are lots of different organizations that call themselves Baptist, the three most significant divisions are the Southern Baptists, the mainline American Baptists, and the predominantly African-American National Baptists.  I think probably some 85% or better of Americans who call themselves Baptists fit into those three groups, so it&#039;d be manageable to maintain the distinctions between the three of them.  The rest tend to be small bodies not really worthy of notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Richard, though I have a small quibble: while you&#8217;re right that there are lots of different organizations that call themselves Baptist, the three most significant divisions are the Southern Baptists, the mainline American Baptists, and the predominantly African-American National Baptists.  I think probably some 85% or better of Americans who call themselves Baptists fit into those three groups, so it&#8217;d be manageable to maintain the distinctions between the three of them.  The rest tend to be small bodies not really worthy of notice.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55221</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m married, too. Where were you eight years ago when I was sick nigh unto death of meeting the latest it&#039;s-not-you-it&#039;s-me-I-felt-that-way-yesterday-Idon&#039;t-feel-that-way-today guy? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m married, too. Where were you eight years ago when I was sick nigh unto death of meeting the latest it&#8217;s-not-you-it&#8217;s-me-I-felt-that-way-yesterday-Idon&#8217;t-feel-that-way-today guy? :)</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55208</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55208</guid>
		<description>To Ben In Oakland who posted this:

http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2009/11/xgw-digest-november-7-2009/#comments

I&#039;m married now but in my next life, I&#039;m looking you up and begging you to marry me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Ben In Oakland who posted this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2009/11/xgw-digest-november-7-2009/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2009/11/xgw-digest-november-7-2009/#comments</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m married now but in my next life, I&#8217;m looking you up and begging you to marry me.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55203</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55203</guid>
		<description>Richard,

I do know. Because I work in the same building they do. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>I do know. Because I work in the same building they do. :D</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55202</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Emily K, as you may know, the ABC-USA headquarters is located near Philadelphia in the Valley Forge / King of Prussia area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily K, as you may know, the ABC-USA headquarters is located near Philadelphia in the Valley Forge / King of Prussia area.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/20/16867/comment-page-1#comment-55201</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16867#comment-55201</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an American Baptist Church a few miles from where I grew up (Main Line PA) that hosts an LGBTQ &quot;safe space&quot; for queer teens to meet and hang out. A very good friend of mine was raised partly in ABC congregation, and comes from a very accepting family (as she herself is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an American Baptist Church a few miles from where I grew up (Main Line PA) that hosts an LGBTQ &#8220;safe space&#8221; for queer teens to meet and hang out. A very good friend of mine was raised partly in ABC congregation, and comes from a very accepting family (as she herself is).</p>
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