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	<title>Comments on: Catholic News Source: Scott Lively Blames Foreign Gays for Uganda&#8217;s &#8220;Kill Gays&#8221; Bill</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: fannie</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55617</link>
		<dc:creator>fannie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;While the Catholic leadership in the nation has not yet responded publicly to the proposed bill, they have consistently expressed outrage at the attempts of the West to impose acceptance of homosexuality on the country.&quot;

Now this is interesting.  

&quot;Sodomy&quot; wasn&#039;t a crime in Uganda until the British imperialists made it one in the late 19th century, as they did in most of their colonies. 

I&#039;m not saying that Uganda was a utopia for gays before then, but the criminalization of homosexuality (especially between two men) is most certainly an imposition of the values of Western colonists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;While the Catholic leadership in the nation has not yet responded publicly to the proposed bill, they have consistently expressed outrage at the attempts of the West to impose acceptance of homosexuality on the country.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now this is interesting.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Sodomy&#8221; wasn&#8217;t a crime in Uganda until the British imperialists made it one in the late 19th century, as they did in most of their colonies. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that Uganda was a utopia for gays before then, but the criminalization of homosexuality (especially between two men) is most certainly an imposition of the values of Western colonists.</p>
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		<title>By: Elise</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55581</link>
		<dc:creator>Elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55581</guid>
		<description>I remember reading a book on gay history (I think it might have been Out of the Past, by Neill Miller) that observed that one consistently recurring theme throughout history has been the tendency of a society to consider itself to be naturally free of homosexuality, and any homosexuality that does occur within isn&#039;t really an organic part of their community, but was introduced by another, usually hated and feared, society for whom homosexuality is natural. So in early Judaism and Christianity, homosexuality is a Pagan thing. While in Pagan ancient Greece, you had talk about lesbianism being the invention of the Egyptians. 

In 1930&#039;s Western Europe homosexuality was the supposed domain of Jews and Bolsheviks, while Communist Europeans saw it as a vice of the Western aristocratic class. And in Victorian England, there was the famous case of the two schoolteachers accused of lesbianism by an Indian student, whose case was thrown out by a judge who felt that while lesbianism might be something that happens in dark, heathen India, two Englishwomen would never think to do such a thing. 

All of which is a roundabout way of saying that the Ugandan&#039;s government&#039;s rhetoric of homosexuality being a foreign phenomenon forced into Uganda by Western gay activists and roving pedophiles fits into a much older pattern of scapegoating and Othering gays by associating them with an oppressive or feared society.

And by the way, I have really have to admire the chutzpah of people like Lively railling at culturally imperialist Western forces meddling in the direction of Uganda&#039;s culture and government while he... meddles in the direction of Uganda&#039;s culture and government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading a book on gay history (I think it might have been Out of the Past, by Neill Miller) that observed that one consistently recurring theme throughout history has been the tendency of a society to consider itself to be naturally free of homosexuality, and any homosexuality that does occur within isn&#8217;t really an organic part of their community, but was introduced by another, usually hated and feared, society for whom homosexuality is natural. So in early Judaism and Christianity, homosexuality is a Pagan thing. While in Pagan ancient Greece, you had talk about lesbianism being the invention of the Egyptians. </p>
<p>In 1930&#8217;s Western Europe homosexuality was the supposed domain of Jews and Bolsheviks, while Communist Europeans saw it as a vice of the Western aristocratic class. And in Victorian England, there was the famous case of the two schoolteachers accused of lesbianism by an Indian student, whose case was thrown out by a judge who felt that while lesbianism might be something that happens in dark, heathen India, two Englishwomen would never think to do such a thing. </p>
<p>All of which is a roundabout way of saying that the Ugandan&#8217;s government&#8217;s rhetoric of homosexuality being a foreign phenomenon forced into Uganda by Western gay activists and roving pedophiles fits into a much older pattern of scapegoating and Othering gays by associating them with an oppressive or feared society.</p>
<p>And by the way, I have really have to admire the chutzpah of people like Lively railling at culturally imperialist Western forces meddling in the direction of Uganda&#8217;s culture and government while he&#8230; meddles in the direction of Uganda&#8217;s culture and government.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55578</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55578</guid>
		<description>Lynn David,

Thank you for the NCR article.  A good read.  

However, while the propositions may not have specifically addressed homosexuality, the NCR article seems to have the same interpretation as the LSN article of how the Synod&#039;s positions reflect on this bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynn David,</p>
<p>Thank you for the NCR article.  A good read.  </p>
<p>However, while the propositions may not have specifically addressed homosexuality, the NCR article seems to have the same interpretation as the LSN article of how the Synod&#8217;s positions reflect on this bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55577</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55577</guid>
		<description>David,

I agree that the bias is pervasive.  Without doubt.

I&#039;ve not noticed the factual errors that you have.  But perhaps that is because I generally use them only as a source for stories that don&#039;t have wide circulation.  If I did comparative reading I might have noticed a greater error rate.

Nevertheless, I do commend them on having stories that I have difficulty finding on mainstream media or even gay media (though presented through the lens of raging anti-gay animus).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I agree that the bias is pervasive.  Without doubt.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve not noticed the factual errors that you have.  But perhaps that is because I generally use them only as a source for stories that don&#8217;t have wide circulation.  If I did comparative reading I might have noticed a greater error rate.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I do commend them on having stories that I have difficulty finding on mainstream media or even gay media (though presented through the lens of raging anti-gay animus).</p>
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		<title>By: BCCanuck</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55574</link>
		<dc:creator>BCCanuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55574</guid>
		<description>Of course they&#039;ve found a way to blame the gays. It&#039;s always the fault of the gays. Who else could they blame? Really? They&#039;re socially, emotionally, intellectually, economically, cognitively, politically, religiously, ethically, linguistically and conceptually incapable of any other response (see &quot;How God Changes Your Brain&quot; by Newberg &amp; Waldman, for example). They&#039;re both morally incapacitated and spiritually disoriented by their own epistemological inflexibility. Or, in other words, they&#039;ve inflicted themselves with a collective disabling brain injury, as indeed have all fundamentalists.

&quot;But it is sad when an institution as old and influential as the Catholic Church, and one that is charged with doing good, seems to be siding with evil.&quot;

It&#039;s only sad if it&#039;s unexpected. These days, it&#039;s just business-as-usual (emphasis on the business).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course they&#8217;ve found a way to blame the gays. It&#8217;s always the fault of the gays. Who else could they blame? Really? They&#8217;re socially, emotionally, intellectually, economically, cognitively, politically, religiously, ethically, linguistically and conceptually incapable of any other response (see &#8220;How God Changes Your Brain&#8221; by Newberg &amp; Waldman, for example). They&#8217;re both morally incapacitated and spiritually disoriented by their own epistemological inflexibility. Or, in other words, they&#8217;ve inflicted themselves with a collective disabling brain injury, as indeed have all fundamentalists.</p>
<p>&#8220;But it is sad when an institution as old and influential as the Catholic Church, and one that is charged with doing good, seems to be siding with evil.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s only sad if it&#8217;s unexpected. These days, it&#8217;s just business-as-usual (emphasis on the business).</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55561</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 08:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55561</guid>
		<description>This is perhaps more truthful to the Catholic line concerning Uganda at least that in North America.

Anti-gay bill in Uganda challenges Catholics to take a stand
http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/anti-gay-bill-uganda-challenges-catholics-take-stand

Scott Lively seems to be taking pot-shots when ever some news source or blog allows him to do so.  He did against Dr Throckmorton a while back on the PFOX blog, saying: &quot;Warren Throckmorton Goes to the Dark Side.&quot;
http://pfox-exgays.blogspot.com/2009/11/warren-throckmorton-grove-city-college.html

From the LifeSite article:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Last month at the Synod for Africa at the Vatican, bishops from all over the continent noted their grave concerns over the international anti-family pressure.

Summing up the discussions, the Cardinal Archbishop of Cape Coast, Ghana, Peter Turkson, said that the Synod had &quot;described in various ways a ferocious onslaught on the family and the related fundamental institution of marriage from outside Africa and attributed it to diverse sources.&quot; The bishops, he said, &quot;vigorously denounced the ideology and international programs which are imposed on African countries under false pretexts or as conditions for development assistance.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Read the &lt;a href=&quot;http://eapi.admu.edu.ph/bodega/synod.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Synod for Africa&#039;s 57 Propositions&lt;/a&gt;; homosexuality is no where named in them and it is possible not even alluded to.  Proposition 38: The Family, doesn&#039;t even hint at homosexuality anywhere. Proposition 55 is about the Abolition of the Death Penalty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is perhaps more truthful to the Catholic line concerning Uganda at least that in North America.</p>
<p>Anti-gay bill in Uganda challenges Catholics to take a stand<br />
<a href="http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/anti-gay-bill-uganda-challenges-catholics-take-stand" rel="nofollow">http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/anti-gay-bill-uganda-challenges-catholics-take-stand</a></p>
<p>Scott Lively seems to be taking pot-shots when ever some news source or blog allows him to do so.  He did against Dr Throckmorton a while back on the PFOX blog, saying: &#8220;Warren Throckmorton Goes to the Dark Side.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://pfox-exgays.blogspot.com/2009/11/warren-throckmorton-grove-city-college.html" rel="nofollow">http://pfox-exgays.blogspot.com/2009/11/warren-throckmorton-grove-city-college.html</a></p>
<p>From the LifeSite article:</p>
<blockquote><p>Last month at the Synod for Africa at the Vatican, bishops from all over the continent noted their grave concerns over the international anti-family pressure.</p>
<p>Summing up the discussions, the Cardinal Archbishop of Cape Coast, Ghana, Peter Turkson, said that the Synod had &#8220;described in various ways a ferocious onslaught on the family and the related fundamental institution of marriage from outside Africa and attributed it to diverse sources.&#8221; The bishops, he said, &#8220;vigorously denounced the ideology and international programs which are imposed on African countries under false pretexts or as conditions for development assistance.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Read the <a href="http://eapi.admu.edu.ph/bodega/synod.htm" rel="nofollow">Synod for Africa&#8217;s 57 Propositions</a>; homosexuality is no where named in them and it is possible not even alluded to.  Proposition 38: The Family, doesn&#8217;t even hint at homosexuality anywhere. Proposition 55 is about the Abolition of the Death Penalty.</p>
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		<title>By: David Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55560</link>
		<dc:creator>David Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 07:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55560</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;LifeSiteNews is generally well written (though biased) and informative and often will have stories that have not caught the attention of mainstream media, especially those which are international in scope.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Wow, I would have to disagree strongly with that statement.&#160; I have found their stories to often be way beyond bias and at times filled with egregious errors.&#160; What is worse, they do not respond at all to any requests for correction, even the most obvious.&#160;&#160; They seem to be accountable to no one.&#160; I honestly find their treatment here of Lively to be quite in line with their standard operating procedure. Of course, that doesn&#039;t make it any more excusable</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
&quot;LifeSiteNews is generally well written (though biased) and informative and often will have stories that have not caught the attention of mainstream media, especially those which are international in scope.&quot;
</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow, I would have to disagree strongly with that statement.&nbsp; I have found their stories to often be way beyond bias and at times filled with egregious errors.&nbsp; What is worse, they do not respond at all to any requests for correction, even the most obvious.&nbsp;&nbsp; They seem to be accountable to no one.&nbsp; I honestly find their treatment here of Lively to be quite in line with their standard operating procedure. Of course, that doesn&#8217;t make it any more excusable</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Mac</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55551</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55551</guid>
		<description>&quot;perhaps best viewed as an unofficial lay voice of the Roman Catholic Church.&quot;

I challenge that statement.  There are many lay voices of the RCC, and I have seen no &quot;blessing&quot; of LifeSite as any unofficial or official voice of anything except for its membership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;perhaps best viewed as an unofficial lay voice of the Roman Catholic Church.&#8221;</p>
<p>I challenge that statement.  There are many lay voices of the RCC, and I have seen no &#8220;blessing&#8221; of LifeSite as any unofficial or official voice of anything except for its membership.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55550</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55550</guid>
		<description>TRiG,

Yes, the Catholic Church has sided with evil on many occasions.  Far too many occasions.

And yet it does not always do so.  Often the church chooses instead to do good, help the poor, and be a champion for the oppressed.

So it is sad when we see it happen yet again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TRiG,</p>
<p>Yes, the Catholic Church has sided with evil on many occasions.  Far too many occasions.</p>
<p>And yet it does not always do so.  Often the church chooses instead to do good, help the poor, and be a champion for the oppressed.</p>
<p>So it is sad when we see it happen yet again.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy (TRiG)</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/28/16976/comment-page-1#comment-55549</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy (TRiG)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=16976#comment-55549</guid>
		<description>If &quot;the cherished culture of the people of Uganda&quot; involves killing people who have done no harm to anyone, then I suggest that we should stop cherishing it.

I&#039;m Irish, and will say that your last paragraph is merely absurd. The hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church sided with evil a long time ago.

TRiG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If &#8220;the cherished culture of the people of Uganda&#8221; involves killing people who have done no harm to anyone, then I suggest that we should stop cherishing it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m Irish, and will say that your last paragraph is merely absurd. The hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church sided with evil a long time ago.</p>
<p>TRiG.</p>
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