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	<title>Comments on: Cohen On Maddow: &#8220;Disavows All Relationship&#8221; To Uganda&#8217;s &#8220;Kill Gays&#8221; Bill</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Ephilei</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-2#comment-56836</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephilei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56836</guid>
		<description>@cowboy

While I&#039;m not a professional psychologist, my thinking is that, like all scientific communities, are surrounded by crackpot experts and addressing them only implies legitimacy. Professional has puts lots of research into Cohen&#039;s areas: why people are gay/lesbian, the affect of gay parenting, etc. That research is their response to Cohen, whether it has his name in it or not.

Don&#039;t confuse scientists with politicians, journalists, and all the people trying to influence public ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cowboy</p>
<p>While I&#8217;m not a professional psychologist, my thinking is that, like all scientific communities, are surrounded by crackpot experts and addressing them only implies legitimacy. Professional has puts lots of research into Cohen&#8217;s areas: why people are gay/lesbian, the affect of gay parenting, etc. That research is their response to Cohen, whether it has his name in it or not.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t confuse scientists with politicians, journalists, and all the people trying to influence public ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-2#comment-56789</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56789</guid>
		<description>Why does it take Rachel Maddow to bring this to light?   Why aren’t people in the industry of psychology making any public statements about the gross inaccuracies in what Cohen, et al are saying?   Is there only Dr. Throckmorton?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does it take Rachel Maddow to bring this to light?   Why aren’t people in the industry of psychology making any public statements about the gross inaccuracies in what Cohen, et al are saying?   Is there only Dr. Throckmorton?</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56787</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56787</guid>
		<description>Thanks Priya Lynn,

I see that I erred in using your name and Quo&#039;s in my comment.  So let me correct that mistake

&lt;strong&gt;TO EVERYONE

This thread will now return to the topic at hand. Future posts that do not relate to Rachel Maddow, Richard Cohen, Uganda’s Kill Gays bill, or a closely related topic will be removed.&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Priya Lynn,</p>
<p>I see that I erred in using your name and Quo&#8217;s in my comment.  So let me correct that mistake</p>
<p><strong>TO EVERYONE</p>
<p>This thread will now return to the topic at hand. Future posts that do not relate to Rachel Maddow, Richard Cohen, Uganda’s Kill Gays bill, or a closely related topic will be removed.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56770</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56770</guid>
		<description>Timothy said &quot;This thread will now return to the topic at hand. Future posts that do not relate to Rachel Maddow, Richard Cohen, Uganda’s Kill Gays bill, or a closely related topic will be removed.&quot;.

What happened to that, Timothy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy said &#8220;This thread will now return to the topic at hand. Future posts that do not relate to Rachel Maddow, Richard Cohen, Uganda’s Kill Gays bill, or a closely related topic will be removed.&#8221;.</p>
<p>What happened to that, Timothy?</p>
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		<title>By: Désirée</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56741</link>
		<dc:creator>Désirée</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56741</guid>
		<description>BTW Ben, you use of the term &quot;real science&quot; as a way to discredit any study that you disagree with is a logical fallacy often known as the &quot;No True Scotsman&quot; fallacy.  

(From AppliedAstronomy.com)It&#039;s like this:

Teacher: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis
Student: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn&#039;t like haggis!
Teacher: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.

This is an ad hoc
Ad hoc
Ad hoc is a Latin phrase which means &quot;for this [purpose]&quot;. It generally signifies a solution designed for a specific problem or task, non-generalizable, and which cannot be adapted to other purposes....

attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy is employed to shift the definition of the original class to tautologically exclude the specific case or others like it.

A universal claim is of the form &quot;All x are y&quot; or &quot;No x are y.&quot; In the example above, the universal claim is &quot;No Scotsmen are brutal maniacal rapists.&quot; (No S are BMR.) The counterexample is given by the Aberdonian, who, it is implied, is a brutal maniacal rapist. The response relies on a continued insistence that No Scots are brutal maniacal rapists, and to thus conclude that the brutal maniacal and rapacious Aberdonian is no true Scot. Such a conclusion requires shifting the presumed definition of &quot;Scotsman&quot; to exclude all brutal maniacal rapists.

By redefining science to exclude any science you disagree with, you are committing a logical fallacy and thus any conclusions your reach are incorrect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW Ben, you use of the term &#8220;real science&#8221; as a way to discredit any study that you disagree with is a logical fallacy often known as the &#8220;No True Scotsman&#8221; fallacy.  </p>
<p>(From AppliedAstronomy.com)It&#8217;s like this:</p>
<p>Teacher: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis<br />
Student: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn&#8217;t like haggis!<br />
Teacher: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.</p>
<p>This is an ad hoc<br />
Ad hoc<br />
Ad hoc is a Latin phrase which means &#8220;for this [purpose]&#8220;. It generally signifies a solution designed for a specific problem or task, non-generalizable, and which cannot be adapted to other purposes&#8230;.</p>
<p>attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy is employed to shift the definition of the original class to tautologically exclude the specific case or others like it.</p>
<p>A universal claim is of the form &#8220;All x are y&#8221; or &#8220;No x are y.&#8221; In the example above, the universal claim is &#8220;No Scotsmen are brutal maniacal rapists.&#8221; (No S are BMR.) The counterexample is given by the Aberdonian, who, it is implied, is a brutal maniacal rapist. The response relies on a continued insistence that No Scots are brutal maniacal rapists, and to thus conclude that the brutal maniacal and rapacious Aberdonian is no true Scot. Such a conclusion requires shifting the presumed definition of &#8220;Scotsman&#8221; to exclude all brutal maniacal rapists.</p>
<p>By redefining science to exclude any science you disagree with, you are committing a logical fallacy and thus any conclusions your reach are incorrect.</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56691</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56691</guid>
		<description>Not to mention overbearing mothers, and maybe sexually abused too!

*rolls eyes*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention overbearing mothers, and maybe sexually abused too!</p>
<p>*rolls eyes*</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56687</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56687</guid>
		<description>Jason D said:

&quot;Humans aren’t teaching those penguins to pair off in same-sex pairs, they are doing so of their own accord, without signs of illness, or any other man-made cause.&quot;

True, but those penguins may have had distant fathers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason D said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Humans aren’t teaching those penguins to pair off in same-sex pairs, they are doing so of their own accord, without signs of illness, or any other man-made cause.&#8221;</p>
<p>True, but those penguins may have had distant fathers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56672</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56672</guid>
		<description>Jason: For this particular type of thinking, Humpty Dumpty is the best recourse:

&quot;Words mean what I say htey mean. nothing more, and nothing less.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason: For this particular type of thinking, Humpty Dumpty is the best recourse:</p>
<p>&#8220;Words mean what I say htey mean. nothing more, and nothing less.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56639</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56639</guid>
		<description>Ben
said:

&quot;Alex…

Oh, the old “animals do it, so it must be okay” canard. Animals also have interspecies sex. That’s how we get mules. Is that “natural” too?&quot;

Yes.  That which occurs in nature without the influence of man is, by common definition, &quot;natural&quot;.

Ben, your side often tries to label homosexuality as &quot;unnatural&quot;.  In other words, something man made and artificial. A &quot;choice&quot; if you will.  Evidence abounds that homosexuality occurs NATURALLY in many species.  So yes, homosexuality is, indeed, natural. Humans aren&#039;t teaching those penguins to pair off in same-sex pairs, they are doing so of their own accord, without signs of illness, or any other man-made cause. 

Do not confuse &quot;natural&quot; with &quot;moral&quot; they are separate concepts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben<br />
said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Alex…</p>
<p>Oh, the old “animals do it, so it must be okay” canard. Animals also have interspecies sex. That’s how we get mules. Is that “natural” too?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes.  That which occurs in nature without the influence of man is, by common definition, &#8220;natural&#8221;.</p>
<p>Ben, your side often tries to label homosexuality as &#8220;unnatural&#8221;.  In other words, something man made and artificial. A &#8220;choice&#8221; if you will.  Evidence abounds that homosexuality occurs NATURALLY in many species.  So yes, homosexuality is, indeed, natural. Humans aren&#8217;t teaching those penguins to pair off in same-sex pairs, they are doing so of their own accord, without signs of illness, or any other man-made cause. </p>
<p>Do not confuse &#8220;natural&#8221; with &#8220;moral&#8221; they are separate concepts.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/08/17565/comment-page-1#comment-56634</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17565#comment-56634</guid>
		<description>Quo-- yeats in &quot;The Curlew&quot; might be helpful to you.

&quot;No boughs have withered because of the wintry wind. The boughs have withered because I have told them my dreams.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quo&#8211; yeats in &#8220;The Curlew&#8221; might be helpful to you.</p>
<p>&#8220;No boughs have withered because of the wintry wind. The boughs have withered because I have told them my dreams.&#8221;</p>
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