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	<title>Comments on: Ugandan Lesbian Goes Public: &#8220;Tell Me, What Will Happen To Us?”</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56982</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56982</guid>
		<description>Joey,

I hope some day that you will be free of feeling shame for simply being same-sex attracted.  I hope that you will no longer feel the need to hide and build walls and shut out coworkers and clients and others who would like to know you.  

When you do, you will be much less likely to readily feel dismissive towards other gay people.  And you will also be much happier and, ironically, much more successful as a professional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey,</p>
<p>I hope some day that you will be free of feeling shame for simply being same-sex attracted.  I hope that you will no longer feel the need to hide and build walls and shut out coworkers and clients and others who would like to know you.  </p>
<p>When you do, you will be much less likely to readily feel dismissive towards other gay people.  And you will also be much happier and, ironically, much more successful as a professional.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56970</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56970</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But the strictly emotional appeal of the gays-are-in-our-churches-families-tribes-communities isn’t very persuasive. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Joey,

You, like Ben, assume that because you would see this appeal as &quot;emotional&quot; that it therefore is strictly emotional.  You assume that everyone already knows that gays are in their churches, families, and tribes and therefore there is no real intellectual argument made.

You are wrong.

In Uganda, the populace is told by its government, its churches, and its newspapers that gays are rich foreigners who prey on Ugandan children.  They believe that the only reason there is homosexual activity in the nation is because foreigners pay Ugandans for gay sex and get them hooked.

They are entirely unaware that real Ugandans are same-sex attracted.  They do not know that orientation is not addictive.  They have never heard of loving same-sex relationships.

This is not just an emotional appeal - though it does touch on emotions.  This is also a factual appeal, providing information that Ugandans are never told and do not know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But the strictly emotional appeal of the gays-are-in-our-churches-families-tribes-communities isn’t very persuasive. </p></blockquote>
<p>Joey,</p>
<p>You, like Ben, assume that because you would see this appeal as &#8220;emotional&#8221; that it therefore is strictly emotional.  You assume that everyone already knows that gays are in their churches, families, and tribes and therefore there is no real intellectual argument made.</p>
<p>You are wrong.</p>
<p>In Uganda, the populace is told by its government, its churches, and its newspapers that gays are rich foreigners who prey on Ugandan children.  They believe that the only reason there is homosexual activity in the nation is because foreigners pay Ugandans for gay sex and get them hooked.</p>
<p>They are entirely unaware that real Ugandans are same-sex attracted.  They do not know that orientation is not addictive.  They have never heard of loving same-sex relationships.</p>
<p>This is not just an emotional appeal &#8211; though it does touch on emotions.  This is also a factual appeal, providing information that Ugandans are never told and do not know.</p>
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		<title>By: Symonds</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56920</link>
		<dc:creator>Symonds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 04:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56920</guid>
		<description>Joey,

The &#039;gays in church&#039; argument is not intellectually persuasive,  no.  But then, this is not an intellectual or logical discussion.  Anti-gay prejudice comes mostly from anti-gay theology, and anti-gay theology is an arbitrary claim that gays are bad.  No logic to it.  

So articles like this are, in Uganda and everywhere else, the most useful tool in fighting homophobia that we&#039;ve got.  David Bahati depends on one thing to pass this bill- making sure that gays stay a cartoon, so they can be safely drawn as pedophiles, monsters, predators... whatever he needs at the moment.  You don&#039;t argue against that logically, not if you want to make any headway.  You come out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey,</p>
<p>The &#8216;gays in church&#8217; argument is not intellectually persuasive,  no.  But then, this is not an intellectual or logical discussion.  Anti-gay prejudice comes mostly from anti-gay theology, and anti-gay theology is an arbitrary claim that gays are bad.  No logic to it.  </p>
<p>So articles like this are, in Uganda and everywhere else, the most useful tool in fighting homophobia that we&#8217;ve got.  David Bahati depends on one thing to pass this bill- making sure that gays stay a cartoon, so they can be safely drawn as pedophiles, monsters, predators&#8230; whatever he needs at the moment.  You don&#8217;t argue against that logically, not if you want to make any headway.  You come out.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56892</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56892</guid>
		<description>ohnoohnoohnoohnohono.

Another good Christian victimized and shut down.

At least we know what dog Quo has in this race.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ohnoohnoohnoohnohono.</p>
<p>Another good Christian victimized and shut down.</p>
<p>At least we know what dog Quo has in this race.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56868</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56868</guid>
		<description>Since it is now apparent that Ben&#039;s only interest in commenting here is for his trolling opportunities instead of engaging in respectful, civil discourse. Since his repeated conduct is in violation of our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Comments Policy&lt;/a&gt;, he will be placed on moderation. Comments which conform to our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Comments Policy&lt;/a&gt; will be approved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since it is now apparent that Ben&#8217;s only interest in commenting here is for his trolling opportunities instead of engaging in respectful, civil discourse. Since his repeated conduct is in violation of our <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">Comments Policy</a>, he will be placed on moderation. Comments which conform to our <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">Comments Policy</a> will be approved.</p>
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		<title>By: Elise</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56859</link>
		<dc:creator>Elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 04:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56859</guid>
		<description>Yup. Gay lives and loves and humanity are all so much meaningless fluff.  The only thing that matters is Ben&#039;s irrational hatred. That&#039;s meaningful. That&#039;s real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. Gay lives and loves and humanity are all so much meaningless fluff.  The only thing that matters is Ben&#8217;s irrational hatred. That&#8217;s meaningful. That&#8217;s real.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56850</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56850</guid>
		<description>Well, we will have to see if the Ugandan government fines the Monitor for promoting immorality now like they fine that radio station in 2004(?) for airing the inequities for gay Ugandans in getting HIV/AIDS counselling/treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we will have to see if the Ugandan government fines the Monitor for promoting immorality now like they fine that radio station in 2004(?) for airing the inequities for gay Ugandans in getting HIV/AIDS counselling/treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56849</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56849</guid>
		<description>Joey,

One difference is that gay people are not trying to put homophobes in jail, give them the death penalty, or make it a crime for them to be housed or married.  Another difference is that the people supporting the &quot;Kill Gays Bill&quot; have a false image of gays being foreign predators and uncommitted sex fiends, which this interview shatters to some extent.  The more they can put a real face to the people they are condemning, the harder it should be to dehumanize them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey,</p>
<p>One difference is that gay people are not trying to put homophobes in jail, give them the death penalty, or make it a crime for them to be housed or married.  Another difference is that the people supporting the &#8220;Kill Gays Bill&#8221; have a false image of gays being foreign predators and uncommitted sex fiends, which this interview shatters to some extent.  The more they can put a real face to the people they are condemning, the harder it should be to dehumanize them.</p>
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		<title>By: joey</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56842</link>
		<dc:creator>joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56842</guid>
		<description>As much as Ben is an a$$hole, he does frequently bring up good points. I&#039;m saying this as a gay man.

Personally, I don&#039;t care if someone else has a moral objection to what I do with my partner. I should be free to pursue my sex life, and they should be free to disapprove of it till their heart&#039;s content. I certainly don&#039;t support any coercive measures to force people to approve of what I do.

In fact, it&#039;s none of their business and I&#039;d like to keep it that way. When I go to work, I don&#039;t make a big deal out of the fact that I&#039;m gay. I don&#039;t even mention it. My personal life is irrelevant to my professional life.

As far as his comment about child molesters--he&#039;s all wrong about the comparison. But the strictly emotional appeal of the gays-are-in-our-churches-families-tribes-communities isn&#039;t very persuasive. Lots of people are in our churches, tribes, and families. I even have people in my family who stridently object to what I do! You could call them homophobes; that&#039;s one way of putting it. Turn it around this way--&quot;This article is an extremely rare opportunity for Americans to consider that homophobic people aren’t evil aliens, but members of their own church, tribe and family.&quot;

Somehow I don&#039;t think that BTB readers would suddenly see homophobia as okay, simply because it is practiced by members of their churches, tribes or families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as Ben is an a$$hole, he does frequently bring up good points. I&#8217;m saying this as a gay man.</p>
<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t care if someone else has a moral objection to what I do with my partner. I should be free to pursue my sex life, and they should be free to disapprove of it till their heart&#8217;s content. I certainly don&#8217;t support any coercive measures to force people to approve of what I do.</p>
<p>In fact, it&#8217;s none of their business and I&#8217;d like to keep it that way. When I go to work, I don&#8217;t make a big deal out of the fact that I&#8217;m gay. I don&#8217;t even mention it. My personal life is irrelevant to my professional life.</p>
<p>As far as his comment about child molesters&#8211;he&#8217;s all wrong about the comparison. But the strictly emotional appeal of the gays-are-in-our-churches-families-tribes-communities isn&#8217;t very persuasive. Lots of people are in our churches, tribes, and families. I even have people in my family who stridently object to what I do! You could call them homophobes; that&#8217;s one way of putting it. Turn it around this way&#8211;&#8221;This article is an extremely rare opportunity for Americans to consider that homophobic people aren’t evil aliens, but members of their own church, tribe and family.&#8221;</p>
<p>Somehow I don&#8217;t think that BTB readers would suddenly see homophobia as okay, simply because it is practiced by members of their churches, tribes or families.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/12/17865/comment-page-1#comment-56840</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=17865#comment-56840</guid>
		<description>Thanks, richard. :)

Meanwhile, i am wondering why it is that our boy Ben is so obsessed with the evil of homosexuality.

Hmmmmmm............</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, richard. :)</p>
<p>Meanwhile, i am wondering why it is that our boy Ben is so obsessed with the evil of homosexuality.</p>
<p>Hmmmmmm&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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