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	<title>Comments on: BBC: &#8220;Should Homosexuals Face Execution?&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Désirée</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57278</link>
		<dc:creator>Désirée</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57278</guid>
		<description>On its face, the question was completely out of line.  I would like to think however (not that I give the BBC credit to have the cleverness or intelligence to come up with this) that the question was posed in such a way as to point out the disgusting nature of what Uganda is doing, to present it in as harsh a light as possible, to in fact highlight the idea that debating the legal execution of a group of people is simply unconscionable. By framing the question in its purist form, eliminating any Uganda reference, they forced the bigots out and showed them to be in line with those who would support gassing Jews or lynching blacks.  Or, at least, were they actually that sneaky and clever, they would have, instead of just bungling the whole thing and making themselves look like idiots and bigots themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On its face, the question was completely out of line.  I would like to think however (not that I give the BBC credit to have the cleverness or intelligence to come up with this) that the question was posed in such a way as to point out the disgusting nature of what Uganda is doing, to present it in as harsh a light as possible, to in fact highlight the idea that debating the legal execution of a group of people is simply unconscionable. By framing the question in its purist form, eliminating any Uganda reference, they forced the bigots out and showed them to be in line with those who would support gassing Jews or lynching blacks.  Or, at least, were they actually that sneaky and clever, they would have, instead of just bungling the whole thing and making themselves look like idiots and bigots themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57273</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57273</guid>
		<description>Honestly I rather liked that they didn&#039;t beat around the bush. Let people see the naked disgusting truth of the measure being debated in Uganda, so that it can be rejected so clearly the way it ought to be, instead of dancing around and trying to pretend that it&#039;s simply not the &quot;best&quot; way of dealing with the &quot;issue.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly I rather liked that they didn&#8217;t beat around the bush. Let people see the naked disgusting truth of the measure being debated in Uganda, so that it can be rejected so clearly the way it ought to be, instead of dancing around and trying to pretend that it&#8217;s simply not the &#8220;best&#8221; way of dealing with the &#8220;issue.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy (TRiG)</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57270</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy (TRiG)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57270</guid>
		<description>The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/dec/16/bbc-africa-have-your-say&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Guardian&lt;/a&gt; wasn&#039;t impressed.

TRiG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/dec/16/bbc-africa-have-your-say" rel="nofollow">Guardian</a> wasn&#8217;t impressed.</p>
<p>TRiG.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57264</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57264</guid>
		<description>Ivan-
What are you saying? I think you&#039;re misunderstanding my statement.  Otherwise, I interpret your post to mean that homosexuals hanging from trees would rather their deaths go unmentioned.

That said, I didn&#039;t mean to suggest that I find the executions of people merely to be stimulating. However, all communication is symbolic; an interrogative sentence about death is not the same as a death.  The fact that people often confuse words with what they represent does not make it so.  

The BBC actually asked the question, &quot;Should homosexuals face execution?&quot;--really? How bizarre! And how completely in line with something I am genuinely curious about: How many people believe that gay people should face execution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan-<br />
What are you saying? I think you&#8217;re misunderstanding my statement.  Otherwise, I interpret your post to mean that homosexuals hanging from trees would rather their deaths go unmentioned.</p>
<p>That said, I didn&#8217;t mean to suggest that I find the executions of people merely to be stimulating. However, all communication is symbolic; an interrogative sentence about death is not the same as a death.  The fact that people often confuse words with what they represent does not make it so.  </p>
<p>The BBC actually asked the question, &#8220;Should homosexuals face execution?&#8221;&#8211;really? How bizarre! And how completely in line with something I am genuinely curious about: How many people believe that gay people should face execution?</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57261</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57261</guid>
		<description>Phil said:

&quot;I think the question “Should Homosexuals Face Execution?” is fascinating&quot;

I&#039;m sure that any homosexual hanging from a tree will be gratified in their final moments by the thought that you find the morality of their death a such stimulating topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil said:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think the question “Should Homosexuals Face Execution?” is fascinating&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that any homosexual hanging from a tree will be gratified in their final moments by the thought that you find the morality of their death a such stimulating topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57244</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57244</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s fascinating to hear this often-used phrase: &lt;em&gt;&quot;As Christians we are called upon to &lt;strong&gt;love &lt;/strong&gt;the homosexual.&quot;&lt;/em&gt; 

It&#039;s obvious that their &quot;love&quot; is just a performance. They have memorized a script. And that&#039;s part of why they can easily support draconian policies with a clear conscience and a smile. They can view themselves as good people doing what is necessary for the benefit of homosexuals and society. And, of course, it emboldens them to know their policies are stamped &quot;DEITY APPROVED.&quot;

I do believe there are people out there capable of promoting extermination with a loving smile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s fascinating to hear this often-used phrase: <em>&#8220;As Christians we are called upon to <strong>love </strong>the homosexual.&#8221;</em> </p>
<p>It&#8217;s obvious that their &#8220;love&#8221; is just a performance. They have memorized a script. And that&#8217;s part of why they can easily support draconian policies with a clear conscience and a smile. They can view themselves as good people doing what is necessary for the benefit of homosexuals and society. And, of course, it emboldens them to know their policies are stamped &#8220;DEITY APPROVED.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do believe there are people out there capable of promoting extermination with a loving smile.</p>
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		<title>By: JimInMa</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57234</link>
		<dc:creator>JimInMa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57234</guid>
		<description>Somehow that last statement had gotten munged on the way to being published.
The last statement originally read:
&quot;Should religion-other-than-your-own people face execution&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow that last statement had gotten munged on the way to being published.<br />
The last statement originally read:<br />
&#8220;Should religion-other-than-your-own people face execution&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: JimInMa</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57232</link>
		<dc:creator>JimInMa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57232</guid>
		<description>Should bigots face execution?
Should blacks face execution?
Should asians face execution?
Should  people face execution?
Been there, done that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should bigots face execution?<br />
Should blacks face execution?<br />
Should asians face execution?<br />
Should  people face execution?<br />
Been there, done that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57228</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57228</guid>
		<description>Very good, Phil. As i wrote in another context, in reasponse to this comment:

&quot;The most egregious of this is the issue of hating gays. Nothing could be further from the truth.&quot;

Of course you don&#039;t hate us and this isn&#039;t about bigotry. you love us. It&#039;s the christian thing to do. You don’t hate anyone. Honestly, you don’t. The Biblical message is all about compassion, about loving your neighbor and all that. You love homosexuals. You really do. You just hate our same-sex-lusting,public-fornicating, child molesting, disease spreading, marriage ruining, family wrecking, military compromising, religious freedom hating, god detesting, Christian disparaging, faith villifying, society-endangering ways. And really now, where’s the hate in that? Of course, you want to call it love instead of hate because hate is, well, so hateful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good, Phil. As i wrote in another context, in reasponse to this comment:</p>
<p>&#8220;The most egregious of this is the issue of hating gays. Nothing could be further from the truth.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course you don&#8217;t hate us and this isn&#8217;t about bigotry. you love us. It&#8217;s the christian thing to do. You don’t hate anyone. Honestly, you don’t. The Biblical message is all about compassion, about loving your neighbor and all that. You love homosexuals. You really do. You just hate our same-sex-lusting,public-fornicating, child molesting, disease spreading, marriage ruining, family wrecking, military compromising, religious freedom hating, god detesting, Christian disparaging, faith villifying, society-endangering ways. And really now, where’s the hate in that? Of course, you want to call it love instead of hate because hate is, well, so hateful.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/16/18304/comment-page-1#comment-57182</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=18304#comment-57182</guid>
		<description>Hm. I guess I&#039;m in the minority, but I think the question “Should Homosexuals Face Execution?” is fascinating, and I really wish I could see what the results of the BBC poll turned out to be.  

I&#039;m a gay man, and I feel that we&#039;re sometimes too delicate in our rhetoric when it comes to debating and discussing gay issues.  I&#039;m tired of hearing people who oppose something perfectly fair and reasonable, such as same-sex marriage--or even civil unions--claim that they are not bigots.  I think it would be useful to get our opponents to acknowledge that bigots _exist_, and that every time they make an argument opposing gay rights, it behooves them to explain what the difference is between their position and a bigot&#039;s position.  Eventually, it will become clear that for many issues, there isn&#039;t a difference.

Proposition 8 passed in California with a 52.3% majority.  Most of the people who voted for Prop 8 probably don&#039;t support the execution of homosexuals. But some of the millions of voters surely do.  How many?  If, for example, 2.301% of the electorate happen to believe that, then it&#039;s worth pointing out that the only reason same-sex marriage is illegal is because of the support of people who want to kill gays.  

Maggie Gallagher and Rick Warren, for example, probably really honestly believe that they are not bigots.  They should know that their initiatives would never have passed without the support of repugnant bigots, and they should feel pressured to distance themselves from these bigots _every_ _time_ they talk.

This is not to say that the BBC poll was well-constructed.  Polls that involve self-selection are statistically irrelevant.  But the idea that it&#039;s somehow inappropriate to examine the _extreme_ hate that&#039;s out there allows too many people to hold the comfortable belief that extremist hatred doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm. I guess I&#8217;m in the minority, but I think the question “Should Homosexuals Face Execution?” is fascinating, and I really wish I could see what the results of the BBC poll turned out to be.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a gay man, and I feel that we&#8217;re sometimes too delicate in our rhetoric when it comes to debating and discussing gay issues.  I&#8217;m tired of hearing people who oppose something perfectly fair and reasonable, such as same-sex marriage&#8211;or even civil unions&#8211;claim that they are not bigots.  I think it would be useful to get our opponents to acknowledge that bigots _exist_, and that every time they make an argument opposing gay rights, it behooves them to explain what the difference is between their position and a bigot&#8217;s position.  Eventually, it will become clear that for many issues, there isn&#8217;t a difference.</p>
<p>Proposition 8 passed in California with a 52.3% majority.  Most of the people who voted for Prop 8 probably don&#8217;t support the execution of homosexuals. But some of the millions of voters surely do.  How many?  If, for example, 2.301% of the electorate happen to believe that, then it&#8217;s worth pointing out that the only reason same-sex marriage is illegal is because of the support of people who want to kill gays.  </p>
<p>Maggie Gallagher and Rick Warren, for example, probably really honestly believe that they are not bigots.  They should know that their initiatives would never have passed without the support of repugnant bigots, and they should feel pressured to distance themselves from these bigots _every_ _time_ they talk.</p>
<p>This is not to say that the BBC poll was well-constructed.  Polls that involve self-selection are statistically irrelevant.  But the idea that it&#8217;s somehow inappropriate to examine the _extreme_ hate that&#8217;s out there allows too many people to hold the comfortable belief that extremist hatred doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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