Too, while I am delighted to have others believe whatever persuasion of religious particulars, I will be satisfied in this or any religious “leader” when and only when their messages of right-and-wrong (and in relation to any category of behavior, not only gaiety) is swiftly, boldly, and without exception followed up by “but it is wrong of you(congregations) to hate, to condemn, to ostracize, to withhold benefits, accomodations, to treat lesser, and to vote against those who may not believe in or adhere to/tow the line of our(their, one’s, etc) religious views”.

So far I have heard none of this from not only Olsteen, but any other “Religious Leader”. This is MISSING-in-the MESSAGE.

It is indeed the religious that need to hear from us, who are encourageable, who are the greatest obstacle, and who (in part) can be reached. A Portion of them will always be a problem. My takeaway from the BTB article is to Encourage Progress. I do this now, and I think all gays appreciate kindness, as we receive so very little of it.

Andrew’s(above) Family issues are ones I share. ‘Snot okay for them’uns to have theirs but for us’uns to have none, speaking specifically of governmental benefits. I find that my family wants my emotional support but have little support to offer. Our Federal Government wants our tax money, but returns no benefits.

Between After-Tax health premiums, no access to my partner’s Social Security Benefits, and Higher Federal Probate Taxes, my husband and I will be hundreds of thousands of dollars poorer than my married hetero brother or sister over the remainder of our lifetimes. This issue is always a surprise when told to heterosexuals. This is the issue I always drive home. People understand money.

While I am certainly understanding and empathetic to all of the religious, social, etc. conversations here, it is not at all superficial to need financial secutity. Financials are a matter of practicality and a part of the “conversation” often overlooked, IMHO.

Love to all, Sincerely

Let’s create a hypothetical (leaving the possible truth of it aside). Most blacks dislike LBGT people and are vocal about this in meetings they have with their black friends.

Now, let’s revise all the above set of negative comments about the Church/Osteen and insert “the blacks”/[a known black leader]. I think it’s a fair statement that if some third party were reading this, they’d call us a pack of bigots.

Yes, we “don’t harm anyone” as Priya said, but that’s only in the basic nature of our homosexuality. Once you get to forms of activism…well I think we’ve clothed ourselves in a victim’s suit based on the above, and now feel like no matter what we say, we are entitled to be as self-righteous as we want.

I think Tim is trying to underscore the need for a dialogue, of making fine distinctions, of understanding those who don’t agree with us. He’s not saying we should shut the hell up when someone says something only mildy bigotted about gays.

As a community, we get so pissed off at the drop of a hat that when we have something to really say, everyone thinks we’re crying wolf again. Let’s get reasonable about the most likely way this plays out. Those that are open to dialogue can be moved a bit closer to our beliefs, and future generations will be even closer. Those we have no dialogue with, who just knee-jerk hate us will eventually get old and die. It’s like Avenue Q says — everyone’s a little bit racist/[bigotted], but hopefully my bigotry is smaller than my parents’, and my children’s will be smaller than mine.

“The Negro’s great stumbling block in the drive toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice.”
(MLK)

While I suppose their could be exceptions, I personally find these megachurch/TV pastors to be so consumed with their own image, popularity and their own personal success that it is hard to imagine them as God’s best.

No one said you should do it angrily, its more of a matter of fact type of thing, just as you would explain to a child whose stolen a chocolate bar that he/she is a theif and so is Bernie Madoff even though the two crimes aren’t equivalent.

If someone comes up to me and tells me all about how they have this great black friend and they love black people, but that they think a whiter person would be a better choice for a managment job I’m going to bring them back to reality by telling them calmly they are a racist.