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	<title>Comments on: Virginia court orders Lisa Miller to turn over Isabella</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-2#comment-59540</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59540</guid>
		<description>&quot;she disappeared in September? do you have information we don’t? Her last know communication was in December.&quot;

The original post said they questioned neighbors and they claimed the house was empty since September. So either they are all in a conspiracy to lie for her or she left to go somewhere else (whether out of the country, or another part of the US) over 3 months ago.

Personally after everything I&#039;ve read about this case I can&#039;t stand either Ms. Miller or Ms. Jenkins. I&#039;m not sure whose side that puts me on. This whole thing is a mess. Isabella&#039;s life has been horrifically screwed up no matter what the end result is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;she disappeared in September? do you have information we don’t? Her last know communication was in December.&#8221;</p>
<p>The original post said they questioned neighbors and they claimed the house was empty since September. So either they are all in a conspiracy to lie for her or she left to go somewhere else (whether out of the country, or another part of the US) over 3 months ago.</p>
<p>Personally after everything I&#8217;ve read about this case I can&#8217;t stand either Ms. Miller or Ms. Jenkins. I&#8217;m not sure whose side that puts me on. This whole thing is a mess. Isabella&#8217;s life has been horrifically screwed up no matter what the end result is.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-2#comment-59523</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 02:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59523</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I disagree. We don’t randomly question people in a free society, simply because we don’t like the group of people that they hang with.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

George, I know you&#039;re having fun fighting with priya, but WHAT Random people?  Debbie Thurman isn&#039;t random, neither are Lisa&#039;s Lawyers, officials where Isabella was attending school, etc. Which people qualify as &quot;random&quot; in your estimation?  All the names and people being tossed out have a connection to Lisa and or Isabella.  It would be poor policework not to attempt to talk to everyone who&#039;s had contact with them in the past 6 months or so.

And leaving the country seems kind of a stretch, too.  A few basics get in the way.

-Visas
-Language
-Money
-Employment

From what I gather, Lisa had no money and no job during the course of this trial.  Wherever she&#039;s gone, she&#039;s likely to need a job and very quickly.

It&#039;s rather difficult to just &quot;disappear&quot; anymore, not with technology and virtually everything we do leaving some sort of footprint behind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I disagree. We don’t randomly question people in a free society, simply because we don’t like the group of people that they hang with.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>George, I know you&#8217;re having fun fighting with priya, but WHAT Random people?  Debbie Thurman isn&#8217;t random, neither are Lisa&#8217;s Lawyers, officials where Isabella was attending school, etc. Which people qualify as &#8220;random&#8221; in your estimation?  All the names and people being tossed out have a connection to Lisa and or Isabella.  It would be poor policework not to attempt to talk to everyone who&#8217;s had contact with them in the past 6 months or so.</p>
<p>And leaving the country seems kind of a stretch, too.  A few basics get in the way.</p>
<p>-Visas<br />
-Language<br />
-Money<br />
-Employment</p>
<p>From what I gather, Lisa had no money and no job during the course of this trial.  Wherever she&#8217;s gone, she&#8217;s likely to need a job and very quickly.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s rather difficult to just &#8220;disappear&#8221; anymore, not with technology and virtually everything we do leaving some sort of footprint behind.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-2#comment-59520</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59520</guid>
		<description>Please.  This is getting excruciating.

No more arguing about who started what and who is really the bigot.  No more assumptions about others&#039; motivations or what they wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please.  This is getting excruciating.</p>
<p>No more arguing about who started what and who is really the bigot.  No more assumptions about others&#8217; motivations or what they wish.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-2#comment-59516</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59516</guid>
		<description>I think it is unlikely she left the country.  Most custody cases that involve parents taking children out of the country involve parents with an international connection. Unless Ms. Miller had dual citizenship or some family support in another country, it seems unlikely to be a very attractive alternative to hiding in the US, a country where she could more easily blend in. 

Further, Americans cannot just live indefinitely in other countries.  Visa&#039;s expire. People require work permits.  Being an illegal alien is difficult in any country.

Time will tell.  I do hope that Ms. Miller and the child are found, the sooner the better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is unlikely she left the country.  Most custody cases that involve parents taking children out of the country involve parents with an international connection. Unless Ms. Miller had dual citizenship or some family support in another country, it seems unlikely to be a very attractive alternative to hiding in the US, a country where she could more easily blend in. </p>
<p>Further, Americans cannot just live indefinitely in other countries.  Visa&#8217;s expire. People require work permits.  Being an illegal alien is difficult in any country.</p>
<p>Time will tell.  I do hope that Ms. Miller and the child are found, the sooner the better.</p>
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		<title>By: George78</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-1#comment-59510</link>
		<dc:creator>George78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59510</guid>
		<description>&quot;she disappeared in September? do you have information we don’t? Her last know communication was in December.&quot;

Did you read the original post? Sheriff&#039;s officials have talked to neighbors. Miller apparently vanished in September. 

&quot;You’re sounded more like a defense lawyer, more interested in protecting Lisa Miller than in someone who wants to see justice done.&quot;

Constitutional protections are afforded to everyone, whether we like them or not. Freedom is tough like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;she disappeared in September? do you have information we don’t? Her last know communication was in December.&#8221;</p>
<p>Did you read the original post? Sheriff&#8217;s officials have talked to neighbors. Miller apparently vanished in September. </p>
<p>&#8220;You’re sounded more like a defense lawyer, more interested in protecting Lisa Miller than in someone who wants to see justice done.&#8221;</p>
<p>Constitutional protections are afforded to everyone, whether we like them or not. Freedom is tough like that.</p>
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		<title>By: George78</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-1#comment-59509</link>
		<dc:creator>George78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59509</guid>
		<description>&quot;What’s wrong with George’s input is his claim that Miller is almost certainly out of the country has no evidence to back it up. Admittedly I made a similar claim, but I did that primarily to point out the absurdity of George’s certainty, and to annoy George – my claim remains as valid as his. What’s further wrong with George’s input is his claim that I’m a lunatic for talking about his wishful thinking when in fact he’s done the same with regards to me. If I’m a lunatic, so is George. Finally, whats wrong with Geroge’s input is his claim that I made accusations against him and that that makes me a bigot when in fact I made no accusations against him, but he in fact accused me of being a lunatic, which in his logic makes him the bigot.&quot;

I am sorry, but you were the one who started with the accusations, accusing me of &quot;thinking a certain way&quot; and insinuating that you know where my loyalties lie. You don&#039;t know me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What’s wrong with George’s input is his claim that Miller is almost certainly out of the country has no evidence to back it up. Admittedly I made a similar claim, but I did that primarily to point out the absurdity of George’s certainty, and to annoy George – my claim remains as valid as his. What’s further wrong with George’s input is his claim that I’m a lunatic for talking about his wishful thinking when in fact he’s done the same with regards to me. If I’m a lunatic, so is George. Finally, whats wrong with Geroge’s input is his claim that I made accusations against him and that that makes me a bigot when in fact I made no accusations against him, but he in fact accused me of being a lunatic, which in his logic makes him the bigot.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am sorry, but you were the one who started with the accusations, accusing me of &#8220;thinking a certain way&#8221; and insinuating that you know where my loyalties lie. You don&#8217;t know me.</p>
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		<title>By: George78</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-1#comment-59508</link>
		<dc:creator>George78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59508</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you are a potential suspect (as these people might be, as potential accomplices) it’s probably better to get a lawyer first and not volunteer information that could falsely incriminate yourself. Otherwise, yes as an innocent bystander you should help.&quot;

Agreed. As I said, the decision to help the police as a witness is a personal one, and I&#039;ll not dictate to others how to respond. 

As a general rule however, if the police have any questions regarding you, you should never respond. In any way other than to politely tell them that you refuse to speak to them.

When people willingly give up their Constitutional rights, freedom suffers as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you are a potential suspect (as these people might be, as potential accomplices) it’s probably better to get a lawyer first and not volunteer information that could falsely incriminate yourself. Otherwise, yes as an innocent bystander you should help.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed. As I said, the decision to help the police as a witness is a personal one, and I&#8217;ll not dictate to others how to respond. </p>
<p>As a general rule however, if the police have any questions regarding you, you should never respond. In any way other than to politely tell them that you refuse to speak to them.</p>
<p>When people willingly give up their Constitutional rights, freedom suffers as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: George78</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-1#comment-59507</link>
		<dc:creator>George78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59507</guid>
		<description>&quot;George, your citations are meaningless. Show me a citation that shows the percentage of parental kidnappings where a parent has left the country versus the percentage who have not. Unless you have that you have nothing to back up your suggestion that its more likely than not that someone like Miller has fled the country.&quot;

You don&#039;t get to decide which citations are meaningless. Obviously there is enough of a problem that the steps in the links that I provided were taken. If you want statistics, use Google, I&#039;m not your personal researcher. If you would like to pay me, I&#039;d be glad to provide you with statistics. :)

&quot;And as we can see, its you who’s making accusations, not me. Its abundantly obvious from your posts that you take pleasure in the idea that Miller has left the country and that this will help her evade justice. Your loyalties are obvious and you’re not fooling anyone, its obvious to any rational person. As you said, your accusations against those who dare to disagree with you is a demonstration of your bigotry.&quot;

Laughable. You were the one that started throwing out nonsense about my &quot;secret intentions&quot; and &quot;what I was thinking.&quot; I merely called you on it. I never took any sides on this issue. I merely pointed out what my experience has shown me. I simply believe that the original post was off base with the calls for random questioning. 

I understand that this case stirs emotion in people. Trust me, family law cases almost always invoke strong emotions from all sides. 

However, you began rambling and accusing me. I simply called you on it. Anyone who reads the thread can see that. 

&quot;LOL, you’re so full of it. That isn’t remotely “gestapo” tactics, its normal procedure in a just investigation. The Gestapo used torture and the most extreme of measures to get what they wanted. Your hyperbole is further proof that it is you who is the bigot and your loyalties are with the criminal Miller. We don’t need no stinking crystal ball to see that.&quot;

Again, you seem to think you know me, and know what I am thinking. I am curious as to how you obtained this psychic gift. Were you born with it? 

For the record, accusing people of thinking a certain way is pretty bigoted. Especially since you know nothing about me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;George, your citations are meaningless. Show me a citation that shows the percentage of parental kidnappings where a parent has left the country versus the percentage who have not. Unless you have that you have nothing to back up your suggestion that its more likely than not that someone like Miller has fled the country.&#8221;</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t get to decide which citations are meaningless. Obviously there is enough of a problem that the steps in the links that I provided were taken. If you want statistics, use Google, I&#8217;m not your personal researcher. If you would like to pay me, I&#8217;d be glad to provide you with statistics. :)</p>
<p>&#8220;And as we can see, its you who’s making accusations, not me. Its abundantly obvious from your posts that you take pleasure in the idea that Miller has left the country and that this will help her evade justice. Your loyalties are obvious and you’re not fooling anyone, its obvious to any rational person. As you said, your accusations against those who dare to disagree with you is a demonstration of your bigotry.&#8221;</p>
<p>Laughable. You were the one that started throwing out nonsense about my &#8220;secret intentions&#8221; and &#8220;what I was thinking.&#8221; I merely called you on it. I never took any sides on this issue. I merely pointed out what my experience has shown me. I simply believe that the original post was off base with the calls for random questioning. </p>
<p>I understand that this case stirs emotion in people. Trust me, family law cases almost always invoke strong emotions from all sides. </p>
<p>However, you began rambling and accusing me. I simply called you on it. Anyone who reads the thread can see that. </p>
<p>&#8220;LOL, you’re so full of it. That isn’t remotely “gestapo” tactics, its normal procedure in a just investigation. The Gestapo used torture and the most extreme of measures to get what they wanted. Your hyperbole is further proof that it is you who is the bigot and your loyalties are with the criminal Miller. We don’t need no stinking crystal ball to see that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, you seem to think you know me, and know what I am thinking. I am curious as to how you obtained this psychic gift. Were you born with it? </p>
<p>For the record, accusing people of thinking a certain way is pretty bigoted. Especially since you know nothing about me.</p>
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		<title>By: Désirée</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-1#comment-59505</link>
		<dc:creator>Désirée</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59505</guid>
		<description>she disappeared in September? do you have information we don&#039;t? Her last know communication was in December.

You&#039;re sounded more like a defense lawyer, more interested in protecting Lisa Miller than in someone who wants to see justice done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>she disappeared in September? do you have information we don&#8217;t? Her last know communication was in December.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re sounded more like a defense lawyer, more interested in protecting Lisa Miller than in someone who wants to see justice done.</p>
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		<title>By: George78</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/01/07/19179/comment-page-1#comment-59504</link>
		<dc:creator>George78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=19179#comment-59504</guid>
		<description>&quot;No, it’s called “following leads”.&quot;

I disagree. We don&#039;t randomly question people in a free society, simply because we don&#039;t like the group of people that they hang with. 

Regardless, the police are free to talk to whoever they want, but the people are equally free to refuse to talk to the police.

That&#039;s how our Constitution works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No, it’s called “following leads”.&#8221;</p>
<p>I disagree. We don&#8217;t randomly question people in a free society, simply because we don&#8217;t like the group of people that they hang with. </p>
<p>Regardless, the police are free to talk to whoever they want, but the people are equally free to refuse to talk to the police.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s how our Constitution works.</p>
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