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	<title>Comments on: UK gay activist seeks to remove ex-gay therapist&#8217;s license</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63116</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63116</guid>
		<description>Mark in Co.,

You are welcome to express your opinions here.  But doing so does not in any way obligate me or anyone else to respond.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark in Co.,</p>
<p>You are welcome to express your opinions here.  But doing so does not in any way obligate me or anyone else to respond.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Colorado</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63085</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Colorado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63085</guid>
		<description>Thank you. For my own research.
Mr. Kincaid has NOT refuted me.
Arrogance or NOT.
Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you. For my own research.<br />
Mr. Kincaid has NOT refuted me.<br />
Arrogance or NOT.<br />
Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63074</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63074</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m of two minds about this:

&quot;Let me be clear. I do not believe that therapy is effective in changing sexual orientation....But I don’t believe that an out-right ban on therapy for persons who wish to change their orientation is appropriate. While I find the evidence of “change” to be unsubstantial, we do know that some individuals do achieve a change in life patterns which they find to be meaningful and rewarding. Some find tools to manage their sexual impulses, others find coping skills for aligning their faith with their attractions, and some few find a spouse that adequately fulfills their desires.&quot;

I definitely agree with you that therapy should be available for persons who wish to change their orientation. But the therapist must be honest: there is no good evidence that this sort of change is possible or that the attempt to change is safe. The APA, for example, is very clear about this.

Once this is established, I have no problem with exploring the client&#039;s dissatisfaction and finding ways to alleviate it. The client may decide, as a friend of mine did, &quot;There&#039;s nothing wrong with being gay, but MY way of being gay has been self-defeating.&quot; If so, a change in life patterns or better impulse control may be a worthwhile goal.

Finding a compatible, same-sex spouse would be a great outcome. And &quot;aligning their faith with their attractions&quot; makes perfect sense to me. After all, a faith that runs counter to our basic biology needs some realigning, at a minimum. In my opinion, an unreasonable, harmful faith is neither true nor good. 

Before any of this can be achieved, though, the rubbish that it&#039;s wrong to be gay has to be cleared away. It interferes with finding fulfillment as a gay person. Clients who are trying to turn straight need to see their sexual orientation in a new way, as something that is at least potentially beneficial. For ultimately, they need to derive benefit from it. As Priya said, faulty thinking must be modified, not indulged. 

For conversion therapists to accomplish this, they&#039;d have to have a conversion of their own. They can&#039;t just refrain from making antigay remarks and expect to help a gay client. In most cases - perhaps not all - they should be told not to see clients who want to change their orientation. Someone whose prejudice won&#039;t get in the way should take those cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m of two minds about this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Let me be clear. I do not believe that therapy is effective in changing sexual orientation&#8230;.But I don’t believe that an out-right ban on therapy for persons who wish to change their orientation is appropriate. While I find the evidence of “change” to be unsubstantial, we do know that some individuals do achieve a change in life patterns which they find to be meaningful and rewarding. Some find tools to manage their sexual impulses, others find coping skills for aligning their faith with their attractions, and some few find a spouse that adequately fulfills their desires.&#8221;</p>
<p>I definitely agree with you that therapy should be available for persons who wish to change their orientation. But the therapist must be honest: there is no good evidence that this sort of change is possible or that the attempt to change is safe. The APA, for example, is very clear about this.</p>
<p>Once this is established, I have no problem with exploring the client&#8217;s dissatisfaction and finding ways to alleviate it. The client may decide, as a friend of mine did, &#8220;There&#8217;s nothing wrong with being gay, but MY way of being gay has been self-defeating.&#8221; If so, a change in life patterns or better impulse control may be a worthwhile goal.</p>
<p>Finding a compatible, same-sex spouse would be a great outcome. And &#8220;aligning their faith with their attractions&#8221; makes perfect sense to me. After all, a faith that runs counter to our basic biology needs some realigning, at a minimum. In my opinion, an unreasonable, harmful faith is neither true nor good. </p>
<p>Before any of this can be achieved, though, the rubbish that it&#8217;s wrong to be gay has to be cleared away. It interferes with finding fulfillment as a gay person. Clients who are trying to turn straight need to see their sexual orientation in a new way, as something that is at least potentially beneficial. For ultimately, they need to derive benefit from it. As Priya said, faulty thinking must be modified, not indulged. </p>
<p>For conversion therapists to accomplish this, they&#8217;d have to have a conversion of their own. They can&#8217;t just refrain from making antigay remarks and expect to help a gay client. In most cases &#8211; perhaps not all &#8211; they should be told not to see clients who want to change their orientation. Someone whose prejudice won&#8217;t get in the way should take those cases.</p>
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		<title>By: RCM</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63032</link>
		<dc:creator>RCM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63032</guid>
		<description>Perhaps Mr Strudwick is not so good as a leader of a pressure group, maybe he too stridently wants to get all anti-gay opinions banned, also he might just be a bit quick tempered.  SCOTT is very new, but if it turns out he cannot lead the protest movement, I&#039;m sure someone else will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps Mr Strudwick is not so good as a leader of a pressure group, maybe he too stridently wants to get all anti-gay opinions banned, also he might just be a bit quick tempered.  SCOTT is very new, but if it turns out he cannot lead the protest movement, I&#8217;m sure someone else will.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63031</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63031</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m all for sharing the planet with loons.

Of course, my definitions would be quite different than that of some.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all for sharing the planet with loons.</p>
<p>Of course, my definitions would be quite different than that of some.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: R Holmes</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63027</link>
		<dc:creator>R Holmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63027</guid>
		<description>Strudwick has set up a Facebook page for his group &quot;Stop Conversion Therapy Taskforce&quot;.  So far, in the discussions, he&#039;s been pretty unpleasant to a couple of people who disagreed with him.  His exchange with one person has been removed (I don&#039;t know whether Strudwick removed both posts or only his own).  The other person backed down in the face of Strudwick&#039;s criticism.

I&#039;m following this matter with interest, but so far I&#039;m disheartened by the way Strudwick&#039;s has dealt with disagreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strudwick has set up a Facebook page for his group &#8220;Stop Conversion Therapy Taskforce&#8221;.  So far, in the discussions, he&#8217;s been pretty unpleasant to a couple of people who disagreed with him.  His exchange with one person has been removed (I don&#8217;t know whether Strudwick removed both posts or only his own).  The other person backed down in the face of Strudwick&#8217;s criticism.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m following this matter with interest, but so far I&#8217;m disheartened by the way Strudwick&#8217;s has dealt with disagreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63025</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63025</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t disagree with you RCM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with you RCM.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RCM</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63024</link>
		<dc:creator>RCM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63024</guid>
		<description>Priya,
&quot;it is simply crazy to indulge faulty thinking by accepting it as valid and trying to modify core features of a person to be congruent with damaged thinking.&quot;

Good point, but either we are all going to have to put up with people we think are nuts, or we are going to have to give up on believing there is a human right to freedom of religion.  Personally, I&#039;m ok with having to share the planet with loons, as long as they aren&#039;t harming others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priya,<br />
&#8220;it is simply crazy to indulge faulty thinking by accepting it as valid and trying to modify core features of a person to be congruent with damaged thinking.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good point, but either we are all going to have to put up with people we think are nuts, or we are going to have to give up on believing there is a human right to freedom of religion.  Personally, I&#8217;m ok with having to share the planet with loons, as long as they aren&#8217;t harming others.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard W. Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63023</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard W. Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63023</guid>
		<description>Priya - it was meant sincerely. Those of us who comment here have a multiplicity of backgrounds and commitments. We&#039;re not going to agree all the time, but it&#039;s good to know that we have enough convictions in common to work together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priya &#8211; it was meant sincerely. Those of us who comment here have a multiplicity of backgrounds and commitments. We&#8217;re not going to agree all the time, but it&#8217;s good to know that we have enough convictions in common to work together.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/25/20628/comment-page-1#comment-63022</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20628#comment-63022</guid>
		<description>Richard, uhh, thanks, I think...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, uhh, thanks, I think&#8230;</p>
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