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	<title>Comments on: Supreme Court says &#8220;yes&#8221; to DC Marriages</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63459</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63459</guid>
		<description>Joey: if by &quot;religious freedom&quot; you mean freedom to discirminate on the basis of religious belief, you are correct.

Except that we have laws at every level of government which forbid such discrimination... and iwth good reason.

The question for you to answer is this:why is this particular form of religious discrimination a good idea, while all the other forms of religious discrimination are not?

Answer: maybe it&#039;s really about plain old bigotry, given a very thin veneer of respectabilty by being disguised as religious belief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey: if by &#8220;religious freedom&#8221; you mean freedom to discirminate on the basis of religious belief, you are correct.</p>
<p>Except that we have laws at every level of government which forbid such discrimination&#8230; and iwth good reason.</p>
<p>The question for you to answer is this:why is this particular form of religious discrimination a good idea, while all the other forms of religious discrimination are not?</p>
<p>Answer: maybe it&#8217;s really about plain old bigotry, given a very thin veneer of respectabilty by being disguised as religious belief.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63428</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 01:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63428</guid>
		<description>Joey,

You needn&#039;t worry about the children.  Catholic Charities has not &quot;shut down operations&quot; but has instead transferred operations to the National Center for Children and Families.

So the taxpayer funded adoptions will continue, they just won&#039;t be administered by the Catholic Church any longer.

The Catholic Church may continue to be Catholic and discriminate all they like on whatever issue they want, just not with the public&#039;s funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey,</p>
<p>You needn&#8217;t worry about the children.  Catholic Charities has not &#8220;shut down operations&#8221; but has instead transferred operations to the National Center for Children and Families.</p>
<p>So the taxpayer funded adoptions will continue, they just won&#8217;t be administered by the Catholic Church any longer.</p>
<p>The Catholic Church may continue to be Catholic and discriminate all they like on whatever issue they want, just not with the public&#8217;s funds.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63427</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 01:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63427</guid>
		<description>Great day for gays, and I&#039;m happy about that. Unfortunately, it&#039;s a lousy day for kids who need to be adopted. Catholic Charities of DC has said that they will have to shut down their adoption operations in DC, just like in Boston and SF. That&#039;s really too bad. Only the children will suffer. 

Unfortunately, we seem to live in a zero sum world. It&#039;s hard to make compromises between gay rights and religious freedoms. I, for one, think that there are realistic compromises that accommodate both sides, if only both sides were willing to meet in the middle. Sadly, that&#039;s not the case.

So we have a mixed blessing here.  

I don&#039;t want to force Catholics to act in an un-Catholic fashion. I think they should be able to be Catholic till the cows come home, just as I should be free to be gay till the cows come home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great day for gays, and I&#8217;m happy about that. Unfortunately, it&#8217;s a lousy day for kids who need to be adopted. Catholic Charities of DC has said that they will have to shut down their adoption operations in DC, just like in Boston and SF. That&#8217;s really too bad. Only the children will suffer. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, we seem to live in a zero sum world. It&#8217;s hard to make compromises between gay rights and religious freedoms. I, for one, think that there are realistic compromises that accommodate both sides, if only both sides were willing to meet in the middle. Sadly, that&#8217;s not the case.</p>
<p>So we have a mixed blessing here.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to force Catholics to act in an un-Catholic fashion. I think they should be able to be Catholic till the cows come home, just as I should be free to be gay till the cows come home.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63421</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63421</guid>
		<description>In reading &lt;a href=&quot;http://lawdork.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/9A0807.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roberts&#039; decision&lt;/a&gt;, we see that he decided this on the merits of the argument, which was:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Petitioners argue that this action was improper, because D.C. Council legislation providing that a referendum is not required cannot trump a provision of the D. C. Charter specifying that a referendum is required.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

In other words, the Council back in 79 exempted Human Rights issues from the referendum process stated in the Charter.  But that the Council had no authority to override the Charter&#039;s provisions and thereby usurp Congress&#039; power.  That being the case, referenda which violate the Human Rights Act - no matter how egregious - are perfectly legal and allowed.

Roberts said that &quot;This argument has some force.&quot;  But he also noted that Congress had an opportunity to veto the Human Rights Act and it&#039;s usurptation on its power and chose not to.

He also noted that Congress chose not to act at this time, implying that if it felt that the Human Rights exclusion violated the intent of Congress it could have remedied the situation.

He also noted that the issue wasn&#039;t over because there is an appeal for an initiative (as opposed to a referendum).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reading <a href="http://lawdork.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/9A0807.pdf" rel="nofollow">Roberts&#8217; decision</a>, we see that he decided this on the merits of the argument, which was:</p>
<blockquote><p>Petitioners argue that this action was improper, because D.C. Council legislation providing that a referendum is not required cannot trump a provision of the D. C. Charter specifying that a referendum is required.</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, the Council back in 79 exempted Human Rights issues from the referendum process stated in the Charter.  But that the Council had no authority to override the Charter&#8217;s provisions and thereby usurp Congress&#8217; power.  That being the case, referenda which violate the Human Rights Act &#8211; no matter how egregious &#8211; are perfectly legal and allowed.</p>
<p>Roberts said that &#8220;This argument has some force.&#8221;  But he also noted that Congress had an opportunity to veto the Human Rights Act and it&#8217;s usurptation on its power and chose not to.</p>
<p>He also noted that Congress chose not to act at this time, implying that if it felt that the Human Rights exclusion violated the intent of Congress it could have remedied the situation.</p>
<p>He also noted that the issue wasn&#8217;t over because there is an appeal for an initiative (as opposed to a referendum).</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63417</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63417</guid>
		<description>Err.. I should say about the writing declining to put a stay on D.C. marriages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Err.. I should say about the writing declining to put a stay on D.C. marriages.</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63416</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63416</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t make such a big deal about the cameras in the court thing. It was mostly decided on the fact that it was unprecedented for a federal court case and that the rules were changed with little time before the trial. It&#039;s not necessarily because they bought the pro-Prop 8 arguments hook, line, and sinker.

I believe Roberts made the point that Congress could have stopped it in his writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t make such a big deal about the cameras in the court thing. It was mostly decided on the fact that it was unprecedented for a federal court case and that the rules were changed with little time before the trial. It&#8217;s not necessarily because they bought the pro-Prop 8 arguments hook, line, and sinker.</p>
<p>I believe Roberts made the point that Congress could have stopped it in his writing.</p>
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		<title>By: BobN</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63407</link>
		<dc:creator>BobN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 20:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63407</guid>
		<description>Reading SCOTUS tea leaves is something best left to the experts.  The law was so clear here that it would have been astounding for the Court to have granted a stay.  We should look to those familiar with HOW stays are granted, with how much and with what sort of comment they are issued, to discern Roberts&#039; intent.

I&#039;m no expert, but a three-page stay strikes me as unusual.  That it mentioned other cases that, legally, have absolutely nothing to do with the petition at hand, fills me with foreboding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading SCOTUS tea leaves is something best left to the experts.  The law was so clear here that it would have been astounding for the Court to have granted a stay.  We should look to those familiar with HOW stays are granted, with how much and with what sort of comment they are issued, to discern Roberts&#8217; intent.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no expert, but a three-page stay strikes me as unusual.  That it mentioned other cases that, legally, have absolutely nothing to do with the petition at hand, fills me with foreboding.</p>
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		<title>By: John Culhane</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63406</link>
		<dc:creator>John Culhane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63406</guid>
		<description>With respect, I think the view that the denial of the stay in this case bodes well for marriage equality in the long term is naive. The better portent, unfortunately, is the Supreme Court&#039;s willingness, in the Perry case, to block the televising of the Perry case. There, the Court stuck its nose into a debate that it should have avoided, and bought the most specious arguments of the anti-marriage forces (esp. the idea that the pro-Prop 8 witnesses, who were already quite well known for their views, would be intimidated by having to testify). The decision was &quot;per curiam&quot; (translation for non-lawyers: &quot;By the Court&quot;), but I strongly suspect that Roberts wrote it. I blogged about it on my site: http://wordinedgewise.org/?p=718</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect, I think the view that the denial of the stay in this case bodes well for marriage equality in the long term is naive. The better portent, unfortunately, is the Supreme Court&#8217;s willingness, in the Perry case, to block the televising of the Perry case. There, the Court stuck its nose into a debate that it should have avoided, and bought the most specious arguments of the anti-marriage forces (esp. the idea that the pro-Prop 8 witnesses, who were already quite well known for their views, would be intimidated by having to testify). The decision was &#8220;per curiam&#8221; (translation for non-lawyers: &#8220;By the Court&#8221;), but I strongly suspect that Roberts wrote it. I blogged about it on my site: <a href="http://wordinedgewise.org/?p=718" rel="nofollow">http://wordinedgewise.org/?p=718</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63399</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63399</guid>
		<description>&quot;If Justice Kennedy meant the words he wrote in the Lawrence v. Texas ruling, it will be very difficult for him to reach a negative opinion about equal marriage in Perry v. Schwarzenegger&quot;

Kennedy agreed with the other four right wingers that cameras shouldn&#039;t be allowed during the Perry trial because it was &quot;very likely that irreparable harm&quot; would come to the Prop 8 defendants as the hands of the gays. That&#039;s what you call a &quot;tell&quot;.  We&#039;re done, the rest is just biding time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If Justice Kennedy meant the words he wrote in the Lawrence v. Texas ruling, it will be very difficult for him to reach a negative opinion about equal marriage in Perry v. Schwarzenegger&#8221;</p>
<p>Kennedy agreed with the other four right wingers that cameras shouldn&#8217;t be allowed during the Perry trial because it was &#8220;very likely that irreparable harm&#8221; would come to the Prop 8 defendants as the hands of the gays. That&#8217;s what you call a &#8220;tell&#8221;.  We&#8217;re done, the rest is just biding time.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred in the UK</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/02/20729/comment-page-1#comment-63397</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred in the UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=20729#comment-63397</guid>
		<description>More of a question that a comment.

Might Chief Justice Roberts view same-sex marriage as a minority/civil right that the D.C. council was perfectly entitled to bestow upon its citizens, but one that was beyond the those required by the Constitution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More of a question that a comment.</p>
<p>Might Chief Justice Roberts view same-sex marriage as a minority/civil right that the D.C. council was perfectly entitled to bestow upon its citizens, but one that was beyond the those required by the Constitution?</p>
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