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	<title>Comments on: Fact Checking the Family &#8220;Research&#8221; Council Straw Man Argument</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64688</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64688</guid>
		<description>&quot;So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault! &quot;

Ben, world-wide the overwhelming majority of all cases of HIV/AIDS were transmitted by heterosexual intercourse, the overwhelming majority of all people infected with HIV/AIDS are heterosexual.  The clustering of HIV/AIDS in gay men in the U.S. and Europe is essentially a statistical fluke that reflects the institution of prejudice, rather than any physiological increase in risk.

On the subject of the abuse, misuse and failure of statistics, the following link is interesting: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/57091/title/Odds_Are%2C_Its_Wrong

It’s science’s dirtiest secret: The “scientific method” of testing hypotheses by statistical analysis stands on a flimsy foundation. Statistical tests are supposed to guide scientists in judging whether an experimental result reflects some real effect or is merely a random fluke, but the standard methods mix mutually inconsistent philosophies and offer no meaningful basis for making such decisions. Even when performed correctly, statistical tests are widely misunderstood and frequently misinterpreted. As a result, countless conclusions in the scientific literature are erroneous, and tests of medical dangers or treatments are often contradictory and confusing.

Replicating a result helps establish its validity more securely, but the common tactic of combining numerous studies into one analysis, while sound in principle, is seldom conducted properly in practice.

Experts in the math of probability and statistics are well aware of these problems and have for decades expressed concern about them in major journals. Over the years, hundreds of published papers have warned that science’s love affair with statistics has spawned countless illegitimate findings. In fact, if you believe what you read in the scientific literature, you shouldn’t believe what you read in the scientific literature.

“There is increasing concern,” declared epidemiologist John Ioannidis in a highly cited 2005 paper in PLoS Medicine, “that in modern research, false findings may be the majority or even the vast majority of published research claims.”

This applies even more strongly to recent releases from the CDC.  Just because someone has generated statistics about something, doesn&#039;t mean that they have any clue what they are talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault! &#8221;</p>
<p>Ben, world-wide the overwhelming majority of all cases of HIV/AIDS were transmitted by heterosexual intercourse, the overwhelming majority of all people infected with HIV/AIDS are heterosexual.  The clustering of HIV/AIDS in gay men in the U.S. and Europe is essentially a statistical fluke that reflects the institution of prejudice, rather than any physiological increase in risk.</p>
<p>On the subject of the abuse, misuse and failure of statistics, the following link is interesting: <a href="http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/57091/title/Odds_Are%2C_Its_Wrong" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/57091/title/Odds_Are%2C_Its_Wrong</a></p>
<p>It’s science’s dirtiest secret: The “scientific method” of testing hypotheses by statistical analysis stands on a flimsy foundation. Statistical tests are supposed to guide scientists in judging whether an experimental result reflects some real effect or is merely a random fluke, but the standard methods mix mutually inconsistent philosophies and offer no meaningful basis for making such decisions. Even when performed correctly, statistical tests are widely misunderstood and frequently misinterpreted. As a result, countless conclusions in the scientific literature are erroneous, and tests of medical dangers or treatments are often contradictory and confusing.</p>
<p>Replicating a result helps establish its validity more securely, but the common tactic of combining numerous studies into one analysis, while sound in principle, is seldom conducted properly in practice.</p>
<p>Experts in the math of probability and statistics are well aware of these problems and have for decades expressed concern about them in major journals. Over the years, hundreds of published papers have warned that science’s love affair with statistics has spawned countless illegitimate findings. In fact, if you believe what you read in the scientific literature, you shouldn’t believe what you read in the scientific literature.</p>
<p>“There is increasing concern,” declared epidemiologist John Ioannidis in a highly cited 2005 paper in PLoS Medicine, “that in modern research, false findings may be the majority or even the vast majority of published research claims.”</p>
<p>This applies even more strongly to recent releases from the CDC.  Just because someone has generated statistics about something, doesn&#8217;t mean that they have any clue what they are talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: lurker</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64572</link>
		<dc:creator>lurker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64572</guid>
		<description>(where &quot;sexual activity&quot; = anal, oral, or vaginal sex) . . . but is this getting too technical for you, ben?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(where &#8220;sexual activity&#8221; = anal, oral, or vaginal sex) . . . but is this getting too technical for you, ben?</p>
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		<title>By: lurker</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64569</link>
		<dc:creator>lurker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64569</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;“Oh man…are you really that ignorant? So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault!”&lt;/I&gt;

Many HIV-positive men have never had sex with a man. Many men who HAVE had sex with men are HIV negative. Many women and children are HIV positive. 

Of course unprotected sexual contact of any kind - outside of a closed sexual relationship between HIV-negative partners - increases a person&#039;s risk of acquiring HIV. However, the cause of AIDS is a virus, not sexual activity. 

(and no, I&#039;m not ignorant on this subject. I used to co-teach a course called &quot;The Biology of AIDS&quot; for undergratuates at a University of California campus and probably have much more knowledge about this issue than you - although my knowledge is a bit outdated.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“Oh man…are you really that ignorant? So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault!”</i></p>
<p>Many HIV-positive men have never had sex with a man. Many men who HAVE had sex with men are HIV negative. Many women and children are HIV positive. </p>
<p>Of course unprotected sexual contact of any kind &#8211; outside of a closed sexual relationship between HIV-negative partners &#8211; increases a person&#8217;s risk of acquiring HIV. However, the cause of AIDS is a virus, not sexual activity. </p>
<p>(and no, I&#8217;m not ignorant on this subject. I used to co-teach a course called &#8220;The Biology of AIDS&#8221; for undergratuates at a University of California campus and probably have much more knowledge about this issue than you &#8211; although my knowledge is a bit outdated.)</p>
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		<title>By: Leo</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64565</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64565</guid>
		<description>“treating the diseases caused by a behavior celebrated in same-sex “marriage.” 

So all those heterosexual marriages I&#039;ve attended over the years were really nothing but celebrations of a behavior—specifically vaginal intercourse? 

All of that talk about love and commitment, in sickness or health, richer or poorer and until death due you part stuff was really just a cover? What really was being celebrated was the insertion of a penis in a vagina? Now that I know I may think twice before attending anymore of these things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“treating the diseases caused by a behavior celebrated in same-sex “marriage.” </p>
<p>So all those heterosexual marriages I&#8217;ve attended over the years were really nothing but celebrations of a behavior—specifically vaginal intercourse? </p>
<p>All of that talk about love and commitment, in sickness or health, richer or poorer and until death due you part stuff was really just a cover? What really was being celebrated was the insertion of a penis in a vagina? Now that I know I may think twice before attending anymore of these things.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64507</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64507</guid>
		<description>&quot;...and spend over $14,000 per wedding. (I don’t know about you, but my wife and I spent a LOT less!)&quot;

Was your reception a tailgate party?  (And I guess wedding dresses that aren&#039;t white may be cheaper.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;and spend over $14,000 per wedding. (I don’t know about you, but my wife and I spent a LOT less!)&#8221;</p>
<p>Was your reception a tailgate party?  (And I guess wedding dresses that aren&#8217;t white may be cheaper.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64497</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64497</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Oh man…are you really that ignorant? So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault!&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Hardly a scientific or factual, or even logical look at the situation.

Thousands of women are infected every year with HPV through heterosexual intercourse.  That does not mean heterosexual intercourse is the problem.  The problem is that people aren&#039;t taking precautions or don&#039;t know their status. Quite frankly, ALL SEX is risky to some degree or another.

&lt;i&gt;Do you have to FORCE other people, aginst their will and by government edict, to validate your bizarre and unnatual relationship?&lt;/i&gt;

Nothing is being forced upon you.  However if you want to talk about force, heterosexuality, or the assumption of heterosexuality is forced upon LGBT folks every day.  A school prom in Mississippi has been cancelled because the school board felt it was their duty to force heterosexuality upon a student, and when she refused, they cancelled the prom.

If straight people can&#039;t live and let live that&#039;s their own issue.  We don&#039;t demand you give up anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Oh man…are you really that ignorant? So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault!&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Hardly a scientific or factual, or even logical look at the situation.</p>
<p>Thousands of women are infected every year with HPV through heterosexual intercourse.  That does not mean heterosexual intercourse is the problem.  The problem is that people aren&#8217;t taking precautions or don&#8217;t know their status. Quite frankly, ALL SEX is risky to some degree or another.</p>
<p><i>Do you have to FORCE other people, aginst their will and by government edict, to validate your bizarre and unnatual relationship?</i></p>
<p>Nothing is being forced upon you.  However if you want to talk about force, heterosexuality, or the assumption of heterosexuality is forced upon LGBT folks every day.  A school prom in Mississippi has been cancelled because the school board felt it was their duty to force heterosexuality upon a student, and when she refused, they cancelled the prom.</p>
<p>If straight people can&#8217;t live and let live that&#8217;s their own issue.  We don&#8217;t demand you give up anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Lymis</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64495</link>
		<dc:creator>Lymis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64495</guid>
		<description>“treating the diseases caused by a behavior celebrated in same-sex “marriage.” ”

Yeah, and prostitution is taking money for a behavior celebrated in opposite-sex marriage. Does it follow that opposite sex marriage should be outlawed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“treating the diseases caused by a behavior celebrated in same-sex “marriage.” ”</p>
<p>Yeah, and prostitution is taking money for a behavior celebrated in opposite-sex marriage. Does it follow that opposite sex marriage should be outlawed?</p>
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		<title>By: b</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64490</link>
		<dc:creator>b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64490</guid>
		<description>what I REALLY can&#039;t get over is that second-to-last statement in the FRC response, &quot;...taxpayers spend roughly $10 billion a year treating the diseases caused by a behavior celebrated in same-sex &#039;marriage&#039;.&quot;

That statement there really shows what they think of gay people, or anyone in a loving same-sex relationship.  I mean do y&#039;all see what kind of tone is betrayed in those words, &quot;diseases caused by a behavior in same-sex marriage&quot;???  It&#039;s downright UGLY and just plain DISRESPECTFUL, and I think in that statement it definitely shows their obsession with gay sex and what little regard they truly hold for us, despite their arguments that they &quot;love&quot; us.  Doesn&#039;t get much more lovin&#039; than that :p.

I don&#039;t know why they do it...wait scrap that, I think I do.  All of this naysaying and bloated moral grandstanding against LGBT individuals-the FRC and all the other anti-LGBT movement are doing this because it&#039;s EASY.  When one has this fear and revulsion taught to her/him &amp; has it stuck with the stamp of religious belief, one need only think of the physical discomfort brought on by the unpleasantness of what s/he &quot;knows&quot; about LGBT people and then the naysaying just flows.  It&#039;s easy to give in to fear, plain and simple.  What breaks my heart is when LGBT individuals have the misfortune to be born and raised in environments where this fear is drummed into them all throughout their lives.  Even in 2010, WITHOUT being in such environments of shame it can still be tough to stay true to you as an LGBT person, but TO actually come from that, I can&#039;t even imagine that pain, that suffering.

But I&#039;m rambling so sorry for the mouthful.  Let&#039;s just keep fighting the good fight.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what I REALLY can&#8217;t get over is that second-to-last statement in the FRC response, &#8220;&#8230;taxpayers spend roughly $10 billion a year treating the diseases caused by a behavior celebrated in same-sex &#8216;marriage&#8217;.&#8221;</p>
<p>That statement there really shows what they think of gay people, or anyone in a loving same-sex relationship.  I mean do y&#8217;all see what kind of tone is betrayed in those words, &#8220;diseases caused by a behavior in same-sex marriage&#8221;???  It&#8217;s downright UGLY and just plain DISRESPECTFUL, and I think in that statement it definitely shows their obsession with gay sex and what little regard they truly hold for us, despite their arguments that they &#8220;love&#8221; us.  Doesn&#8217;t get much more lovin&#8217; than that :p.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why they do it&#8230;wait scrap that, I think I do.  All of this naysaying and bloated moral grandstanding against LGBT individuals-the FRC and all the other anti-LGBT movement are doing this because it&#8217;s EASY.  When one has this fear and revulsion taught to her/him &amp; has it stuck with the stamp of religious belief, one need only think of the physical discomfort brought on by the unpleasantness of what s/he &#8220;knows&#8221; about LGBT people and then the naysaying just flows.  It&#8217;s easy to give in to fear, plain and simple.  What breaks my heart is when LGBT individuals have the misfortune to be born and raised in environments where this fear is drummed into them all throughout their lives.  Even in 2010, WITHOUT being in such environments of shame it can still be tough to stay true to you as an LGBT person, but TO actually come from that, I can&#8217;t even imagine that pain, that suffering.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m rambling so sorry for the mouthful.  Let&#8217;s just keep fighting the good fight.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64487</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64487</guid>
		<description>And ben-- from another ben:

&quot;So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault!&quot;

shall I rephrase that for you?

So when an HIV positive man infects a woman by way of &#039;natural heterosexual intercourse&#039;, you’re trying to tell me that the natural heterosexual intercourse had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault! 

I think that is what you would say.

&quot;Do you have to FORCE other people, aginst their will and by government edict, to validate your bizarre and unnatual relationship?&quot;

Honey, you are not being forced to do a thing. I could care less whether you validate it, approve of it, or anything. It isn&#039;t about YOU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And ben&#8211; from another ben:</p>
<p>&#8220;So when an HIV positive man infects another man by way of sodomy, you’re trying to tell me that the sodomy had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault!&#8221;</p>
<p>shall I rephrase that for you?</p>
<p>So when an HIV positive man infects a woman by way of &#8216;natural heterosexual intercourse&#8217;, you’re trying to tell me that the natural heterosexual intercourse had nothing to do with it? It was the virus’s fault! </p>
<p>I think that is what you would say.</p>
<p>&#8220;Do you have to FORCE other people, aginst their will and by government edict, to validate your bizarre and unnatual relationship?&#8221;</p>
<p>Honey, you are not being forced to do a thing. I could care less whether you validate it, approve of it, or anything. It isn&#8217;t about YOU.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/13/21111/comment-page-1#comment-64477</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=21111#comment-64477</guid>
		<description>Ben,

I assure you that no one is looking for your validation.  Not me, not Britney Spears, not the serial murderer who has the right to marry even though he&#039;s living on death row.  No one.  I dare say that not one living soul is looking to you for validation for their marriage.  Not one.

But I do demand equal treatment under the law from my government.

And my point was not, of course, that monogamy requires a license.  Rather, that marriage and all of the social and community assumptions that come with it encourage sexual responsibility.  Or, at least, heterosexuals sure seem to think so.  (&quot;Ain&#039;t no ring on MY finger&quot;)

If you&#039;re wondering about the &quot;fib&quot; (what the rest of the world considers an outright lie), it is the bogus math that FRC engages in.  The majority of marriages in the capital are likely to come from nearby states - especially Maryland, in which they will be valid - but FRC pretends to not know this in order to deceive.

But you already know that.  I&#039;m just taking away your opportunity to fake ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p>I assure you that no one is looking for your validation.  Not me, not Britney Spears, not the serial murderer who has the right to marry even though he&#8217;s living on death row.  No one.  I dare say that not one living soul is looking to you for validation for their marriage.  Not one.</p>
<p>But I do demand equal treatment under the law from my government.</p>
<p>And my point was not, of course, that monogamy requires a license.  Rather, that marriage and all of the social and community assumptions that come with it encourage sexual responsibility.  Or, at least, heterosexuals sure seem to think so.  (&#8220;Ain&#8217;t no ring on MY finger&#8221;)</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re wondering about the &#8220;fib&#8221; (what the rest of the world considers an outright lie), it is the bogus math that FRC engages in.  The majority of marriages in the capital are likely to come from nearby states &#8211; especially Maryland, in which they will be valid &#8211; but FRC pretends to not know this in order to deceive.</p>
<p>But you already know that.  I&#8217;m just taking away your opportunity to fake ignorance.</p>
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