“I wonder, if when more people are drowning you and Tim will still be obsessing over the temperature of the water. You can’t see the forest for the trees, and that’s a shame.”

My problem is not the temperature of the water. It’s about conducting one’s self in accordance with the role of a commissioned officer. We should – and must – be held to a high standard of conduct. That is my issue with Lt Choi’s action. His activism up until chaining himself to the WH fence and getting arrested in uniform, I supported. After that, I think he went too far.

I obviously draw the line at a different spot than you. We disagree, but please don’t suggest that I’m blind or unable to consider the merits of your argument – that’s just condescending.

If 500 G/L soldiers came out at one time in an ad in the New York times, preferably with pictures and time in the military, I don’t think DADT would last much longer.

Or better yet, 500 of them in uniform (or not, I can see both sides of this), at the White House fence.

Having only a couple troops there kinda makes it look insignificant.

I’m aware of the UCMJ, though I don’t remember most of it.

The general public, however, knows even less than I do.

Dan’s actions reach beyond simply DADT and the military into the very heart of our larger Civil Rights struggle.

I wonder, if when more people are drowning you and Tim will still be obsessing over the temperature of the water. You can’t see the forest for the trees, and that’s a shame.

Choi had a lot of national sympathy. I wonder whether it was increased or squandered by this action. I just can’t tell.

I believe you are correct, he is not a fool and I never stated that he was. And to reiterate, I believe he has been a courageous voice for change. I also can understand why you and other commenters believe his actions were correct and necessary.

I do, however, stand by my position that he should not have done it in uniform. What you see as him standing up to the system and trying to create outrage, and doing so in uniform, will be seen by the officer corps as conduct unbecoming. It will create unease among the corps and gives a powerful image to those opposed to repealing the ban.

You may say that’s a good thing, and I will tell you that it’s not the sort of unease this movement wants. Many junior officers want the ban repealed, the vast majority either want the ban repealed or don’t care one way or the other. Those who are resolutely against repealing the ban are in the minority. One of the arguments used by them is that if we allow gay people to serve openly, then military bases will see pride parades and lbgt activism on the bases. This sort stunt plays right into those fears and gives them ammunition to support their claims.

Discrimination exists not only because of ignorance, but also because it can be kind of fun. I think there will always be a need for laws to make it less fun.

If 500 G/L soldiers came out at one time in an ad in the New York times, preferably with pictures and time in the military, I don’t think DADT would last much longer. Though my business is dead, I would gladly contribute $300 to that advertisement.

I cannot speak on the legal military merits or demerits of what Dan Choi did, but I absolutely applaud him for his balls. He is doing what most of the anti-antigay campaigns should be doing: COMING OUT BIG TIME. 100% bang-on, Jason. The major reason we lost Prop. 8 was because EQCA ran a campaign that was deeply closeted in its mentality.

Another thing I also think, related to this. So much of our dollar campaigns go the funding organizations and fighting anti-gay asshats. We should be spending a good portion of our money encouraging people to COME OUT, especially those who are related to people in leadership positions, to talk to their friends and families, and to discuss the issues. It is a second reason we lost Prop. 8– the failure of the campaign to encourage gay people via PUBLIC advertising campaigns to come out to their fmailies and talk about it.

The enemy is only peripherally the ass hats, right wingers, and religious bigots. The enemy is the CLOSET, and will always be the closet– just like there will always be anti-gay bigots as long as there is money to be made, power to be obtained, or demons to exorcise (or exercise, as the case may be). They are ultimately not important, because I think most people are actually pretty decent, on the whole, just ignorant and fearful.

As much as I hate to say anything nice about him, dick cheney is a good example of what we can achieve if people just come out.