Comments on: Ex-Gays Celebrating Misery And Tragedy In Lives Of Gay People Is Hardly New http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Sat, 18 May 2013 21:32:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Jason D http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-69103 Jason D Tue, 25 May 2010 21:52:14 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-69103 Western1, READ HIS POST AGAIN. He wasn't generalizing, he was specific to the Colorado Springs FotF crowd. Your comment is out of place as it addresses something his post does not say. You're rushing to the defense of people Steve was clearly, eloquently NOT speaking about. Western1, READ HIS POST AGAIN.

He wasn’t generalizing, he was specific to the Colorado Springs FotF crowd.

Your comment is out of place as it addresses something his post does not say. You’re rushing to the defense of people Steve was clearly, eloquently NOT speaking about.

]]> By: Western1 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-69097 Western1 Tue, 25 May 2010 21:06:00 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-69097 Steve, Your description of Christian leaders might have some truth to it but you grossly generalize. Most pastors, especially those of the caliber of Focus on the Family have traveled extensively, received doctorates in the study of the Bible, ancient Hebrew, ancient Greek, different world religions, family counseling, it goes on and on. They have visited impoverished countries, certainly to help start churches and feeding stations, but have seen the reality of poverty, none the less. They don't live in this suburbian bubble as you seem to describe them. Many have learned different languages to help minister to communities, Spanish, Creole, Korean, etc. Most are faced with constant family discords and addictions from their congregation that they attend to and relationships they pour in to. Most help start ministries in their own cities that help immigrants read and safe places for their kids to study. I speak from experience. So some are white, have a nice lawn, and shop at Home Depot. So what? It's easy to sip your Starbucks Coffee with your Che Guevarra shirt without a clue of the folks who suffer picking the beans and the totalitarian communist country started by the icon on your shirt, while you criticize the Godly men who improve your country. Steve,
Your description of Christian leaders might have some truth to it but you grossly generalize. Most pastors, especially those of the caliber of Focus on the Family have traveled extensively, received doctorates in the study of the Bible, ancient Hebrew, ancient Greek, different world religions, family counseling, it goes on and on. They have visited impoverished countries, certainly to help start churches and feeding stations, but have seen the reality of poverty, none the less. They don’t live in this suburbian bubble as you seem to describe them.
Many have learned different languages to help minister to communities, Spanish, Creole, Korean, etc. Most are faced with constant family discords and addictions from their congregation that they attend to and relationships they pour in to. Most help start ministries in their own cities that help immigrants read and safe places for their kids to study. I speak from experience. So some are white, have a nice lawn, and shop at Home Depot. So what?
It’s easy to sip your Starbucks Coffee with your Che Guevarra shirt without a clue of the folks who suffer picking the beans and the totalitarian communist country started by the icon on your shirt, while you criticize the Godly men who improve your country.

]]> By: Steve http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68953 Steve Sun, 23 May 2010 02:59:53 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68953 William, I think you described a very key part of the problem that these fundamentalists have----that is a very narrow view of how this earth evolved. That narrow view is what leads them to hate gays as we don't fit into the plan for procreation. Humans MUST reproduce and dominate this planet as the entire universe, earth, and everything on earth was made for our use and taking in their view of things. So what if the human species as we know it just showed up about 10,000 years ago despite the universe being billions of years old. It really is the height of self absorption and arrogance to assume that any human would know where we stand in the whole scheme of things let alone deciding if being gay or straight is right or wrong. What they really need to be focusing on is the unspoken truth---there are simply too many humans on this planet. No one is willing to face that reality. William,
I think you described a very key part of the problem that these fundamentalists have—-that is a very narrow view of how this earth evolved. That narrow view is what leads them to hate gays as we don’t fit into the plan for procreation. Humans MUST reproduce and dominate this planet as the entire universe, earth, and everything on earth was made for our use and taking in their view of things. So what if the human species as we know it just showed up about 10,000 years ago despite the universe being billions of years old. It really is the height of self absorption and arrogance to assume that any human would know where we stand in the whole scheme of things let alone deciding if being gay or straight is right or wrong. What they really need to be focusing on is the unspoken truth—there are simply too many humans on this planet. No one is willing to face that reality.

]]> By: William http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68941 William Sat, 22 May 2010 19:39:33 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68941 Steve, “Life on earth has been evolving for billions of years. The human species has been here for far less time.” That’s part of the problem. Most of the so-called pro-family crowd don’t believe that. They’re biblical fundamentalists who believe that the earth and all the species inhabiting it were created between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago, the entire process taking just six days. They also believe that Moses wrote the Pentateuch – including, presumably, the account of his own death and burial – at God’s dictation, although they feel free to decide for themselves which bits of the Mosaic Law apply today and which don’t, justifying their picking and choosing by a fraudulent distinction between “civil”, “ceremonial” and “moral” laws. Those really far out fundamentalists who still insist that the earth is the centre of the universe (see http://www.geocentricity.com/) are at least internally consistent within their own unscientific framework of thought. As some of them have put it, “Science cannot trump the word of God.” Steve,

“Life on earth has been evolving for billions of years. The human species has been here for far less time.”

That’s part of the problem. Most of the so-called pro-family crowd don’t believe that. They’re biblical fundamentalists who believe that the earth and all the species inhabiting it were created between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago, the entire process taking just six days.

They also believe that Moses wrote the Pentateuch – including, presumably, the account of his own death and burial – at God’s dictation, although they feel free to decide for themselves which bits of the Mosaic Law apply today and which don’t, justifying their picking and choosing by a fraudulent distinction between “civil”, “ceremonial” and “moral” laws.

Those really far out fundamentalists who still insist that the earth is the centre of the universe (see http://www.geocentricity.com/) are at least internally consistent within their own unscientific framework of thought.

As some of them have put it, “Science cannot trump the word of God.”

]]> By: Steve http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68930 Steve Sat, 22 May 2010 16:27:02 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68930 An understanding of science and some background in science tends to broaden one's horizons and thoughts when it comes to understanding human sexuality. If there is one thing that can be said about Focus on the Family, it would be that the upper leadership falls into one very narrow category (for about 95% of the leadership): white, male, no scientific background other than the "soft sciences" such as psychology, a plethora of degrees in ministry, middle aged or older, and so forth. Just go to their website and look at the description of the current leadership if you don't believe me. The female directors are really no different. "Doctor" James Dobson is not a real doctor--i.e.not a physician. The title "doctor" some infers that he is a scientific man who deserves special respect. We have a group of mainly white, middle aged men, who live in tidy upper middle class suburbs around Colorado Springs and its environs, who portray themselves as all knowing about the science of human sexuality. Their world view is one of homogenous white suburbs and urban sprawl and strip malls, where a good guy likes football, hunting, and driving a large SUV, and where this planet is ours for the taking. It is a given among these great all American guys that our culture is cleary the best as well as is Christianity. To think otherwise is un-American. To think otherwise is troubling. It is something you suppress---the idea that the white upper middle class suburb may not be the achievement goal of the rest of humanity. So....if you don't have kids, aren't straight, don't enjoy the Bronco's football games, and don't enjoy cutting your lawn at your tract home with the obligate three car garage, you just aren't an American and you probably aren't a good Christian. So what if they never had any scientific training to broaden their perspectives on the vast diversity of life on this planet. So what if they have a warped and superficial knowledge of human biology. Take it from a guy who lives in close proximity to these so called modern prophets who are trying to push their view of a sanitized world on the rest of us. In summary, just think about this: Life on earth has been evolving for billions of years. The human species has been here for far less time. Is it realistic to expect that all evolution has now stopped just because we humans are so damn special that no further evolution is possible? Is it reasonable to conclude that some white guy in Colorado Springs with a flashy smile, a degree in divinity, a soccer mom wife, and a large SUV really knows what life is all about? Furthermore, in all his wisdom, is he the one to determine that God (whoever that is)made some kind of mistake by letting gay people live on this planet? Maybe I will ask him that the next time I see him in Home Depot buying Scotts Weed and Feed for his lawn. An understanding of science and some background in science tends to broaden one’s horizons and thoughts when it comes to understanding human sexuality.

If there is one thing that can be said about Focus on the Family, it would be that the upper leadership falls into one very narrow category (for about 95% of the leadership): white, male, no scientific background other than the “soft sciences” such as psychology, a plethora of degrees in ministry, middle aged or older, and so forth. Just go to their website and look at the description of the current leadership if you don’t believe me. The female directors are really no different. “Doctor” James Dobson is not a real doctor–i.e.not a physician. The title “doctor” some infers that he is a scientific man who deserves special respect.
We have a group of mainly white, middle aged men, who live in tidy upper middle class suburbs around Colorado Springs and its environs, who portray themselves as all knowing about the science of human sexuality. Their world view is one of homogenous white suburbs and urban sprawl and strip malls, where a good guy likes football, hunting, and driving a large SUV, and where this planet is ours for the taking. It is a given among these great all American guys that our culture is cleary the best as well as is Christianity. To think otherwise is un-American. To think otherwise is troubling. It is something you suppress—the idea that the white upper middle class suburb may not be the achievement goal of the rest of humanity.
So….if you don’t have kids, aren’t straight, don’t enjoy the Bronco’s football games, and don’t enjoy cutting your lawn at your tract home with the obligate three car garage, you just aren’t an American and you probably aren’t a good Christian. So what if they never had any scientific training to broaden their perspectives on the vast diversity of life on this planet. So what if they have a warped and superficial knowledge of human biology.
Take it from a guy who lives in close proximity to these so called modern prophets who are trying to push their view of a sanitized world on the rest of us.
In summary, just think about this: Life on earth has been evolving for billions of years. The human species has been here for far less time. Is it realistic to expect that all evolution has now stopped just because we humans are so damn special that no further evolution is possible? Is it reasonable to conclude that some white guy in Colorado Springs with a flashy smile, a degree in divinity, a soccer mom wife, and a large SUV really knows what life is all about? Furthermore, in all his wisdom, is he the one to determine that God (whoever that is)made some kind of mistake by letting gay people live on this planet? Maybe I will ask him that the next time I see him in Home Depot buying Scotts Weed and Feed for his lawn.

]]> By: Jarred http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68920 Jarred Sat, 22 May 2010 10:35:51 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68920 Timothy: I get the joke, and I appreciate it. I also understand your intended meaning when using words like "voo-doo" and "hocus pocus." At the same time, as a witch and a magician who has friends and associates who honor the orishas and/or the loa, it's not a usage I'm entirely comfortable with when I run across it. Timothy: I get the joke, and I appreciate it. I also understand your intended meaning when using words like “voo-doo” and “hocus pocus.” At the same time, as a witch and a magician who has friends and associates who honor the orishas and/or the loa, it’s not a usage I’m entirely comfortable with when I run across it.

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68904 Timothy Kincaid Sat, 22 May 2010 00:06:15 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68904 Comedy, Emily, comedy. It's 5 pm on a Friday. Lighten up. Comedy, Emily, comedy.

It’s 5 pm on a Friday. Lighten up.

]]> By: Emily K http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68901 Emily K Fri, 21 May 2010 23:48:50 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68901 Timothy: per wikipedia: <blockquote>[the phrase's] most prevalent modern meaning is "contrived nonsense", as in, "It was all a load of hocus pocus".</blockquote> I don't need to speak disparagingly of it. it already is. Timothy:

per wikipedia:

[the phrase's] most prevalent modern meaning is “contrived nonsense”, as in, “It was all a load of hocus pocus”.

I don’t need to speak disparagingly of it. it already is.

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68892 Timothy Kincaid Fri, 21 May 2010 23:28:45 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68892 Emily, Please don't speak disparagingly of hocus-pocus. Emily,

Please don’t speak disparagingly of hocus-pocus.

]]> By: Emily K http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/05/19/22805/comment-page-1#comment-68891 Emily K Fri, 21 May 2010 23:24:27 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=22805#comment-68891 Timothy, the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_voodoo" rel="nofollow">Haitian Vodou</a> religion is not "hocus-pocus." Please refrain from stereotyping it as such. Timothy, the Haitian Vodou religion is not “hocus-pocus.” Please refrain from stereotyping it as such.

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