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	<title>Comments on: The IRS changes tax rules to recognize CA same-sex relationships</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69881</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69881</guid>
		<description>The ruling applies to RDPs and same sex married couples in community property states.  Regarding the impact on total taxes paid, it results in LOWER total taxes unless each partner makes exactly the same amount of taxable income.  This has been modeled extensively by gay tax experts, and they have not found a scenario that results in higher taxes than when filing individually.  An equally important point is that this &quot;income splitting&quot; approach results in significantly LOWER total taxes paid than would be the case for a federally recognized married (straight) couple filing a married filing jointly return.  So, gay couples get to pay lower taxes than straight couples.  We should be looking forward to the argument from straights that we shouldn&#039;t get to pay lower taxes - well, we wouldn&#039;t if we were able to have federally recognized marriages.  Next move...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ruling applies to RDPs and same sex married couples in community property states.  Regarding the impact on total taxes paid, it results in LOWER total taxes unless each partner makes exactly the same amount of taxable income.  This has been modeled extensively by gay tax experts, and they have not found a scenario that results in higher taxes than when filing individually.  An equally important point is that this &#8220;income splitting&#8221; approach results in significantly LOWER total taxes paid than would be the case for a federally recognized married (straight) couple filing a married filing jointly return.  So, gay couples get to pay lower taxes than straight couples.  We should be looking forward to the argument from straights that we shouldn&#8217;t get to pay lower taxes &#8211; well, we wouldn&#8217;t if we were able to have federally recognized marriages.  Next move&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: customartist</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69849</link>
		<dc:creator>customartist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 13:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69849</guid>
		<description>For example: I and my husband, married during the legal window in California, have no Domestic Partnership, and therefore the IRS, under its revised position, cannot go after my husbands (larger) income in order to collect any tax debt that I might have, since DOMA prohibits federal acknowledgement of Gay Marriage.  

This, I contend, is the root motivation for their &quot;re-assessment&quot;.  Collect more taxes, but give none of the same benefits as marrieds. 

Currently, I am managing home renovations, have no reported income, yet my husband cannot count me as a dependent on his return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For example: I and my husband, married during the legal window in California, have no Domestic Partnership, and therefore the IRS, under its revised position, cannot go after my husbands (larger) income in order to collect any tax debt that I might have, since DOMA prohibits federal acknowledgement of Gay Marriage.  </p>
<p>This, I contend, is the root motivation for their &#8220;re-assessment&#8221;.  Collect more taxes, but give none of the same benefits as marrieds. </p>
<p>Currently, I am managing home renovations, have no reported income, yet my husband cannot count me as a dependent on his return.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69736</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 06:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69736</guid>
		<description>DaveM, you&#039;re right in that example. I failed to consider that both would receive a standard deduction. I wonder how they will decide things like withholding, though. And itemized deductions. Can you report someone else&#039;s withholding on your return?  If not, one person may get underpayment penalties. Do you have to split itemized deductions equally?  This is a very long way from allowing a gay couple to file married, and won&#039;t always be advantageous. There should at least be an option to file separately, like straights have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DaveM, you&#8217;re right in that example. I failed to consider that both would receive a standard deduction. I wonder how they will decide things like withholding, though. And itemized deductions. Can you report someone else&#8217;s withholding on your return?  If not, one person may get underpayment penalties. Do you have to split itemized deductions equally?  This is a very long way from allowing a gay couple to file married, and won&#8217;t always be advantageous. There should at least be an option to file separately, like straights have.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69710</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69710</guid>
		<description>Ryan,

I&#039;m sorry but you are mistaken.  While this is (I agree) no recognition of equal worth, in most unequal income situations there will be a significant tax savings (In your example above you need to consider that each partner is only taxed on half of the income).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry but you are mistaken.  While this is (I agree) no recognition of equal worth, in most unequal income situations there will be a significant tax savings (In your example above you need to consider that each partner is only taxed on half of the income).</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69704</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69704</guid>
		<description>Tina,

An IRS ruling would not necessarily apply just to California.  If there are other states in which same-sex spouses/DPs have community property laws that impact state taxes, they would presumably use the same methods.

This is something that will have to be determined on a state by state basis so if you think this applies to you, call your accountant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tina,</p>
<p>An IRS ruling would not necessarily apply just to California.  If there are other states in which same-sex spouses/DPs have community property laws that impact state taxes, they would presumably use the same methods.</p>
<p>This is something that will have to be determined on a state by state basis so if you think this applies to you, call your accountant.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina-cious.com</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69698</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina-cious.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 18:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69698</guid>
		<description>Ummm... I&#039;m sorry I&#039;m confused, why is this just California?

Splain Lucy! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm&#8230; I&#8217;m sorry I&#8217;m confused, why is this just California?</p>
<p>Splain Lucy! :)</p>
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		<title>By: DaveM</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69688</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 15:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69688</guid>
		<description>Ryan:
Using your numbers for 2009, and assuming no other complications:

Under the old law:
Bob has AGI of 100000
minus personal exemption of 3650
minus standard deduction of 5700
Taxable income: 90650
total tax 19109
Tim does not file.

Under the new law:
Bob and Tim each have AGI of 50000
minus personal exemption, standard deduction
Taxable income: 40650 each
tax 6356 each
total tax 12712

Savings of $6397</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan:<br />
Using your numbers for 2009, and assuming no other complications:</p>
<p>Under the old law:<br />
Bob has AGI of 100000<br />
minus personal exemption of 3650<br />
minus standard deduction of 5700<br />
Taxable income: 90650<br />
total tax 19109<br />
Tim does not file.</p>
<p>Under the new law:<br />
Bob and Tim each have AGI of 50000<br />
minus personal exemption, standard deduction<br />
Taxable income: 40650 each<br />
tax 6356 each<br />
total tax 12712</p>
<p>Savings of $6397</p>
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		<title>By: customartist</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69686</link>
		<dc:creator>customartist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 15:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69686</guid>
		<description>Ryan is exactly correct.

This change finds only ways for the IRS to collect more.  It does not allow one partner (or legally married gay spouse, which I happen to be) to claim the other partner on tax returns, nor does it address the After-Tax status of healthcare premiums, nor does this address the ability of a partner to collect on the other partners Social Security Benefits as a straight wife can do with her higher-earning Husbands benefits, etc, etc, the list goes on...

This is ONLY a way for the IRS to collect more, and of little or no real benefit to Gays.  Not being unnecessarily negative, just realistic.

I fail, too, to see how this is not in conflice with DOMA?  Help me here please?? _______________</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan is exactly correct.</p>
<p>This change finds only ways for the IRS to collect more.  It does not allow one partner (or legally married gay spouse, which I happen to be) to claim the other partner on tax returns, nor does it address the After-Tax status of healthcare premiums, nor does this address the ability of a partner to collect on the other partners Social Security Benefits as a straight wife can do with her higher-earning Husbands benefits, etc, etc, the list goes on&#8230;</p>
<p>This is ONLY a way for the IRS to collect more, and of little or no real benefit to Gays.  Not being unnecessarily negative, just realistic.</p>
<p>I fail, too, to see how this is not in conflice with DOMA?  Help me here please?? _______________</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69676</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 12:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69676</guid>
		<description>@ Jose:

I suppose we could abolish federal taxes and the tax agencies that regulate them, but then the federal government would die, we&#039;d have no military beyond state militias, and anarchy would rule in the states that couldn&#039;t deal with the pressures of becoming their own country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jose:</p>
<p>I suppose we could abolish federal taxes and the tax agencies that regulate them, but then the federal government would die, we&#8217;d have no military beyond state militias, and anarchy would rule in the states that couldn&#8217;t deal with the pressures of becoming their own country.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/02/23199/comment-page-1#comment-69658</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 05:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23199#comment-69658</guid>
		<description>Ryan,

I&#039;m sorry but you are mistaken.  While this is (I agree) no recognition of equal worth, in most unequal income situations there will be a significant tax savings (In your example above you need to consider that each partner is only taxed on half of the income).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry but you are mistaken.  While this is (I agree) no recognition of equal worth, in most unequal income situations there will be a significant tax savings (In your example above you need to consider that each partner is only taxed on half of the income).</p>
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