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	<title>Comments on: Tulsa passes protections</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: cd</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70979</link>
		<dc:creator>cd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 00:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70979</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I am never shocked when a local Republican is a troglodyte, but I am also now not shocked when a local Republican is an ally. Their conservatism may have to due with property taxes and the waste of city funds rather than whose life they want to control.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m a partisan liberal Democrat, but one thing I&#039;ve learn in social issues politics is that no Party is capable of or willing to do all of the work that is needed.  Republicans may end up having done only 5% or 10% of the work when all is said and done.  But it&#039;s a vital bit, even if it is small and tends to come late in the game.

I&#039;ve also heard of a few cases, notably one in Alabama, where strong liberals putting up somewhat misleading fronts have made political careers as Republicans.

&lt;blockquote&gt;But (and for me it’s a very big but), if you are going to have non-discrimination laws that list groups of people, then leaving off certain folk only gives governmental sanction to discriminate.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No one with much experience thinks these measures are anything like a full remedy or expects them to be enduring law.  The hope is that they minimize the misdeeds perceived to be morally or financially unaffordable until the culture has changed.  At which point they become extraneous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I am never shocked when a local Republican is a troglodyte, but I am also now not shocked when a local Republican is an ally. Their conservatism may have to due with property taxes and the waste of city funds rather than whose life they want to control.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m a partisan liberal Democrat, but one thing I&#8217;ve learn in social issues politics is that no Party is capable of or willing to do all of the work that is needed.  Republicans may end up having done only 5% or 10% of the work when all is said and done.  But it&#8217;s a vital bit, even if it is small and tends to come late in the game.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also heard of a few cases, notably one in Alabama, where strong liberals putting up somewhat misleading fronts have made political careers as Republicans.</p>
<blockquote><p>But (and for me it’s a very big but), if you are going to have non-discrimination laws that list groups of people, then leaving off certain folk only gives governmental sanction to discriminate.</p></blockquote>
<p>No one with much experience thinks these measures are anything like a full remedy or expects them to be enduring law.  The hope is that they minimize the misdeeds perceived to be morally or financially unaffordable until the culture has changed.  At which point they become extraneous.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70972</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70972</guid>
		<description>Mark F,

I too find non-discrimination laws in the private sector to be troubling.  I think people should have the right to be hateful bigots.

But (and for me it&#039;s a very big but), if you are going to have non-discrimination laws that list groups of people, then leaving off certain folk only gives governmental sanction to discriminate.

&quot;Don&#039;t discriminate against Hiram or Maria or Latisha but Bruce... well, we have nothing to say about discriminating against Bruce.&quot;  Bruce ain&#039;t gettin the job.

Which is why it can seem especially frustrating for transgender folk to see sexual orientation added.  It&#039;s just further isolation as &quot;the one person not on the protection list&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark F,</p>
<p>I too find non-discrimination laws in the private sector to be troubling.  I think people should have the right to be hateful bigots.</p>
<p>But (and for me it&#8217;s a very big but), if you are going to have non-discrimination laws that list groups of people, then leaving off certain folk only gives governmental sanction to discriminate.</p>
<p>&#8220;Don&#8217;t discriminate against Hiram or Maria or Latisha but Bruce&#8230; well, we have nothing to say about discriminating against Bruce.&#8221;  Bruce ain&#8217;t gettin the job.</p>
<p>Which is why it can seem especially frustrating for transgender folk to see sexual orientation added.  It&#8217;s just further isolation as &#8220;the one person not on the protection list&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70971</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70971</guid>
		<description>Lindoro,

Just LGB.  The T was too much for the Tulsa city counsel.

But history shows us that once an area gets over its fear of LGB, then often protections for T come along after.  Not every time, but often enough to be hopeful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindoro,</p>
<p>Just LGB.  The T was too much for the Tulsa city counsel.</p>
<p>But history shows us that once an area gets over its fear of LGB, then often protections for T come along after.  Not every time, but often enough to be hopeful.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70969</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70969</guid>
		<description>Jo Allen Doty,

&lt;blockquote&gt;The city Councilor who introduced the measure to add “sexual orientation” is a Republican. That was a pleasant surprise. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I find that local level Republicans are often quite different animals than those who are in Congress.  Local folk have to deal with real problems involving real people who they actually know rather than some nebulous &quot;homosexual agenda&quot; as presented by anti-gay activists.

I am never shocked when a local Republican is a troglodyte, but I am also now not shocked when a local Republican is an ally.  Their conservatism may have to due with property taxes and the waste of city funds rather than whose life they want to control.

And thank you for adding your voice to the debate in Tulsa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jo Allen Doty,</p>
<blockquote><p>The city Councilor who introduced the measure to add “sexual orientation” is a Republican. That was a pleasant surprise. </p></blockquote>
<p>I find that local level Republicans are often quite different animals than those who are in Congress.  Local folk have to deal with real problems involving real people who they actually know rather than some nebulous &#8220;homosexual agenda&#8221; as presented by anti-gay activists.</p>
<p>I am never shocked when a local Republican is a troglodyte, but I am also now not shocked when a local Republican is an ally.  Their conservatism may have to due with property taxes and the waste of city funds rather than whose life they want to control.</p>
<p>And thank you for adding your voice to the debate in Tulsa.</p>
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		<title>By: Emelye Waldherr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70949</link>
		<dc:creator>Emelye Waldherr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70949</guid>
		<description>Culture war over?  Are you guys kidding me?  Instead of discriminating because of who you love they&#039;re just going to change their tactics to discriminating because you are too girly or masculine.  This law is only going to help those gay and lesbian people that pass as straight anyway.

Non-discrimination laws that do not include gender identity/expression are worthless for anyone who doesn&#039;t act or pass as straight.  Good luck with your culture war victory!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Culture war over?  Are you guys kidding me?  Instead of discriminating because of who you love they&#8217;re just going to change their tactics to discriminating because you are too girly or masculine.  This law is only going to help those gay and lesbian people that pass as straight anyway.</p>
<p>Non-discrimination laws that do not include gender identity/expression are worthless for anyone who doesn&#8217;t act or pass as straight.  Good luck with your culture war victory!</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70891</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 21:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70891</guid>
		<description>Mark, if you&#039;re happy being evicted from your home or fired from your job for being gay, knock yourself out, but don&#039;t expect any other LGBT&#039;s to shoot themselves in the foot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, if you&#8217;re happy being evicted from your home or fired from your job for being gay, knock yourself out, but don&#8217;t expect any other LGBT&#8217;s to shoot themselves in the foot.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark F.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70890</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 21:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70890</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t need &quot;protection&quot; from people making their own free decisions. In fact, I reject such &quot;protection.&quot;

Gay people often boycott those who discriminate against them. But, they want to force homophobes to rent and employ them. Just what I want to do---help a homophobe make more money! Go figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t need &#8220;protection&#8221; from people making their own free decisions. In fact, I reject such &#8220;protection.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gay people often boycott those who discriminate against them. But, they want to force homophobes to rent and employ them. Just what I want to do&#8212;help a homophobe make more money! Go figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindoro Almaviva</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70844</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindoro Almaviva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70844</guid>
		<description>Just sexual orientation? or did they go for the whole LBG&lt;b&gt;T&lt;/b&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just sexual orientation? or did they go for the whole LBG<b>T</b>?</p>
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		<title>By: BobbieJane</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70843</link>
		<dc:creator>BobbieJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70843</guid>
		<description>The culture war is not over as long as gender identity is not included. We need protection also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The culture war is not over as long as gender identity is not included. We need protection also.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Allen Doty</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/06/18/23578/comment-page-1#comment-70840</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Allen Doty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 04:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23578#comment-70840</guid>
		<description>There are idiots who posted on the Tulsa World website and the newson6.com website who think that &quot;sexual orientation&quot; means the same thing as &quot;homosexual.&quot; 

The city Councilor who introduced the measure to add &quot;sexual orientation&quot; is a Republican. That was a pleasant surprise. He even said, &quot;Every person has a sexual orientation.&quot;

The City of Tulsa&#039;s Human Rights Council held open Hall Meetings in the Spring of 1994 for discussion about adding those TWO words to the city charter and I attended the first one.

There was a sign up list for those who wanted to voice an opinion. I made sure my name got on there.

One person who lived inside the Tulsa City Limits pastored a church in the rural community of Berryhill signed up to speak. But, he didn&#039;t speak as a resident of Tulsa, he spoke only as pastor of that church.

Some other pastors spoke before me, too. They even tried to claim there were no homosexual in their churches.

They were shocked later when I told them that I knew better than that a I personally knew some other wise openly gay men who attended their churches. 

I am glad that they added those two words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are idiots who posted on the Tulsa World website and the newson6.com website who think that &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; means the same thing as &#8220;homosexual.&#8221; </p>
<p>The city Councilor who introduced the measure to add &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; is a Republican. That was a pleasant surprise. He even said, &#8220;Every person has a sexual orientation.&#8221;</p>
<p>The City of Tulsa&#8217;s Human Rights Council held open Hall Meetings in the Spring of 1994 for discussion about adding those TWO words to the city charter and I attended the first one.</p>
<p>There was a sign up list for those who wanted to voice an opinion. I made sure my name got on there.</p>
<p>One person who lived inside the Tulsa City Limits pastored a church in the rural community of Berryhill signed up to speak. But, he didn&#8217;t speak as a resident of Tulsa, he spoke only as pastor of that church.</p>
<p>Some other pastors spoke before me, too. They even tried to claim there were no homosexual in their churches.</p>
<p>They were shocked later when I told them that I knew better than that a I personally knew some other wise openly gay men who attended their churches. </p>
<p>I am glad that they added those two words.</p>
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