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	<title>Comments on: Willow Creek Association&#8217;s Ties To Martin Ssempa Revealed While Las Vegas Church Continues to Hold Its Ground</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/02/23949</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: F Young</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/02/23949/comment-page-1#comment-72039</link>
		<dc:creator>F Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Regan DuCasse

&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&quot;What can stop Ssempa? Even in a poor country and his conspicuous consumption, what could really stop him?&quot;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

Didn&#039;t you answer your own question? Why not expose Ssempa&#039;s conspicuous consumption? Has anyone tried this? How do we know it wouldn&#039;t work? 

For that matter, why not try it against all the multi-millionaire church leaders in the US too?

F Young</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Regan DuCasse</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;What can stop Ssempa? Even in a poor country and his conspicuous consumption, what could really stop him?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Didn&#8217;t you answer your own question? Why not expose Ssempa&#8217;s conspicuous consumption? Has anyone tried this? How do we know it wouldn&#8217;t work? </p>
<p>For that matter, why not try it against all the multi-millionaire church leaders in the US too?</p>
<p>F Young</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/02/23949/comment-page-1#comment-71805</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23949#comment-71805</guid>
		<description>Now, someone can correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but when churches like this are very explicit about their size, and influence, even with a country as far away as Uganda, that their support give credibility to people like Ssempa and the entire government of that country.

  There are multiple churches, multiple pastors involved here. Who don&#039;t seem to have any compromise to whatever financial holdings they have. As well as members of the Ugandan government who belong to those churches or who at least have the same religious affiliation.

  It looks as if evangelicals who challenge this church, or the Ugandan government and Martin Ssempa, can easily be ignored.
There may be a split, but what indications are there that one side is influencing the other towards civil rights and understanding of the gay community there?

   The church leaders, or even Alan Chambers may express concern, but what made them think this extreme was something they weren&#039;t aware of to begin with?
As we have witnessed, they expressed concern, but also a delayed and tepid response.

  I&#039;m sorry, but I don&#039;t think much about any of those who started the fire and then can&#039;t control it after the fact.
   Even in America, Scripture and Biblical directives have been employed to commit serious human rights abuses, it&#039;s a tradition being employed to this day against gays and lesbians.

  And it&#039;s incredibly persistent, and virulent no matter what. I know I&#039;m sounding pessimistic, but I can&#039;t help it. 
  Ssempa&#039;s ego, and strength seem to grow the more publicity this issue gets.

 And even here, despite how craven supporters of Prop. 8 are, and despite having no evidence to support their claims in court: the voters still likely will have their side win.  Maggie Gallagher and Brian Brown are more emboldened than ever, despite how contradictory and nutty they sound.
  Their egos are growing too, and apparently they are still making plenty of money.

    What can stop Ssempa? Even in a poor country and his conspicuous consumption, what could really stop him?
He has no shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, someone can correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but when churches like this are very explicit about their size, and influence, even with a country as far away as Uganda, that their support give credibility to people like Ssempa and the entire government of that country.</p>
<p>  There are multiple churches, multiple pastors involved here. Who don&#8217;t seem to have any compromise to whatever financial holdings they have. As well as members of the Ugandan government who belong to those churches or who at least have the same religious affiliation.</p>
<p>  It looks as if evangelicals who challenge this church, or the Ugandan government and Martin Ssempa, can easily be ignored.<br />
There may be a split, but what indications are there that one side is influencing the other towards civil rights and understanding of the gay community there?</p>
<p>   The church leaders, or even Alan Chambers may express concern, but what made them think this extreme was something they weren&#8217;t aware of to begin with?<br />
As we have witnessed, they expressed concern, but also a delayed and tepid response.</p>
<p>  I&#8217;m sorry, but I don&#8217;t think much about any of those who started the fire and then can&#8217;t control it after the fact.<br />
   Even in America, Scripture and Biblical directives have been employed to commit serious human rights abuses, it&#8217;s a tradition being employed to this day against gays and lesbians.</p>
<p>  And it&#8217;s incredibly persistent, and virulent no matter what. I know I&#8217;m sounding pessimistic, but I can&#8217;t help it.<br />
  Ssempa&#8217;s ego, and strength seem to grow the more publicity this issue gets.</p>
<p> And even here, despite how craven supporters of Prop. 8 are, and despite having no evidence to support their claims in court: the voters still likely will have their side win.  Maggie Gallagher and Brian Brown are more emboldened than ever, despite how contradictory and nutty they sound.<br />
  Their egos are growing too, and apparently they are still making plenty of money.</p>
<p>    What can stop Ssempa? Even in a poor country and his conspicuous consumption, what could really stop him?<br />
He has no shame.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy (TRiG)</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/02/23949/comment-page-1#comment-71782</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy (TRiG)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 02:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23949#comment-71782</guid>
		<description>But it is an especially large problem in the church, which has a serious streak of paranoia.

TRiG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it is an especially large problem in the church, which has a serious streak of paranoia.</p>
<p>TRiG.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/02/23949/comment-page-1#comment-71758</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23949#comment-71758</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Church (in a greater sense) has a little problem: they don’t trust the media, the sciences, or secularists.&quot;

Please don&#039;t blame that on &quot;the Church&quot;, in any sense.

People who are harming others do not trust the media, the sciences, secularists, or any one who might expose their harm to criticism or judgment.

There are scientists, journalists, secularists, as well as artists, business people, doctors, teachers, and every other category of affiliation or work, who have this little problem, not because of their affiliation, but because they have something to hide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Church (in a greater sense) has a little problem: they don’t trust the media, the sciences, or secularists.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t blame that on &#8220;the Church&#8221;, in any sense.</p>
<p>People who are harming others do not trust the media, the sciences, secularists, or any one who might expose their harm to criticism or judgment.</p>
<p>There are scientists, journalists, secularists, as well as artists, business people, doctors, teachers, and every other category of affiliation or work, who have this little problem, not because of their affiliation, but because they have something to hide.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/02/23949/comment-page-1#comment-71748</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23949#comment-71748</guid>
		<description>The Church (in a greater sense) has a little problem: they don&#039;t trust the media, the sciences, or secularists.

&quot;Who are you going to believe, the secular media or our good brother in Christ?&quot;

So they believe Ssempa.  BTB and the media and everyone else are taking him out of context and lying about him, you see.

This mindset is very dangerous.  Not only does it lead to believing con men, but it is tied to the sumpremist notions that Christians are always right, even when they are wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Church (in a greater sense) has a little problem: they don&#8217;t trust the media, the sciences, or secularists.</p>
<p>&#8220;Who are you going to believe, the secular media or our good brother in Christ?&#8221;</p>
<p>So they believe Ssempa.  BTB and the media and everyone else are taking him out of context and lying about him, you see.</p>
<p>This mindset is very dangerous.  Not only does it lead to believing con men, but it is tied to the sumpremist notions that Christians are always right, even when they are wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: David Foreman</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/02/23949/comment-page-1#comment-71747</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foreman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=23949#comment-71747</guid>
		<description>Great article.  Thanks for the info and update.
Jim, do you know what our President and we, as a country, are doing to stand against this gross stupidity and hatered?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.  Thanks for the info and update.<br />
Jim, do you know what our President and we, as a country, are doing to stand against this gross stupidity and hatered?</p>
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