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	<title>Comments on: Lingle&#8217;s veto justified by an argument based in a sense of entitlement and superiority</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72282</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72282</guid>
		<description>Lingle thwarted the will of the people of Hawaii with this veto..

&lt;a href=&quot;http://newyorklawschool.typepad.com/leonardlink/2010/07/lingles-veto-of-hawaii-civil-union-law-is-wrong.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lingle&#039;s Veto of Hawaii Civil Union Law Is Wrong&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;In other words, Gov. Lingle believes that certain public policy decisions are so fundamental to the nature of society that they cannot properly be made by the elected representatives of the people, but only by the people themselves. This seems to me to be in the grand tradition of passing the buck on a controversial issue.

Interestingly, in 1998, &lt;b&gt;the people of Hawaii voted the opposite&lt;/b&gt;, when they adopted an amendment to the state constitution in response to litigation over same-sex marriage...

...The amendment differs from all the other state constitutional amendments that have been passed on the subject of same-sex marriage. All those other amendments forbid same-sex marriage, and some go further to forbid any substantially similar status for unmarried people, thus tying the hands of state legislatures that might otherwise be willing to enact civil union or domestic partnership laws. But the people of Hawaii did not go that far. Instead, they amended their constitution to provide that the subject of same-sex marriage is for the legislature to decide, not the courts. (And, by implication, not the people through a referendum vote.) &lt;b&gt;The people of Hawaii amended their constitution to empower the legislature to deal with the subject.&lt;/b&gt;

And now Governor Lingle turns things on their head by saying the legislature should not decide.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lingle thwarted the will of the people of Hawaii with this veto..</p>
<p><a href="http://newyorklawschool.typepad.com/leonardlink/2010/07/lingles-veto-of-hawaii-civil-union-law-is-wrong.html" rel="nofollow">Lingle&#8217;s Veto of Hawaii Civil Union Law Is Wrong</a></p>
<blockquote><p>In other words, Gov. Lingle believes that certain public policy decisions are so fundamental to the nature of society that they cannot properly be made by the elected representatives of the people, but only by the people themselves. This seems to me to be in the grand tradition of passing the buck on a controversial issue.</p>
<p>Interestingly, in 1998, <b>the people of Hawaii voted the opposite</b>, when they adopted an amendment to the state constitution in response to litigation over same-sex marriage&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;The amendment differs from all the other state constitutional amendments that have been passed on the subject of same-sex marriage. All those other amendments forbid same-sex marriage, and some go further to forbid any substantially similar status for unmarried people, thus tying the hands of state legislatures that might otherwise be willing to enact civil union or domestic partnership laws. But the people of Hawaii did not go that far. Instead, they amended their constitution to provide that the subject of same-sex marriage is for the legislature to decide, not the courts. (And, by implication, not the people through a referendum vote.) <b>The people of Hawaii amended their constitution to empower the legislature to deal with the subject.</b></p>
<p>And now Governor Lingle turns things on their head by saying the legislature should not decide.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Bill S</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72278</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 01:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72278</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ll note that in recounting the first story, she doesn&#039;t express any empathy for the gay man, all she says is, &quot;Few could be unmoved&quot;.  Meaning, &quot;Oh, not ME of course, I don&#039;t give a tiny rat&#039;s ass.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ll note that in recounting the first story, she doesn&#8217;t express any empathy for the gay man, all she says is, &#8220;Few could be unmoved&#8221;.  Meaning, &#8220;Oh, not ME of course, I don&#8217;t give a tiny rat&#8217;s ass.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Funky Gnoll</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72085</link>
		<dc:creator>Funky Gnoll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 04:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72085</guid>
		<description>What, really? She vetoes civil unions for no good reason (hah! As if there was one!), and you don&#039;t think she&#039;s a bigot?

What #*$&amp;ing planet are you from? Here on Earth, when bigots do bigoted crap, we call them on it--we don&#039;t make excuses for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, really? She vetoes civil unions for no good reason (hah! As if there was one!), and you don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s a bigot?</p>
<p>What #*$&amp;ing planet are you from? Here on Earth, when bigots do bigoted crap, we call them on it&#8211;we don&#8217;t make excuses for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72082</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 03:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72082</guid>
		<description>i disagree with those who say a smiling bigot is just as bad as a sneering bigot. I say the former is a lot worse than the latter. At least the sneer honestly reflects the sentiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i disagree with those who say a smiling bigot is just as bad as a sneering bigot. I say the former is a lot worse than the latter. At least the sneer honestly reflects the sentiment.</p>
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		<title>By: John in the Bay Area</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72070</link>
		<dc:creator>John in the Bay Area</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72070</guid>
		<description>Now she is on the radio comparing same sex marriages or civil unions to incest.  Such horrible bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now she is on the radio comparing same sex marriages or civil unions to incest.  Such horrible bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve in Colorado</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72056</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve in Colorado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 19:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72056</guid>
		<description>I would agree with most of the other posts ----i.e. an insult from a pleasant person with a smile on their face is just as bad as an insult from someone who is cursing at you.  I am amazed that you seem to have ignored that fact that being told you are inferior by virtue of being gay is somehow less offensive just because it came from a smiling, middle aged woman who is dressed nicely.  She doesn&#039;t deserve a pass.  An insult is an insult. Being passive and kissing ass is not going to get us anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree with most of the other posts &#8212;-i.e. an insult from a pleasant person with a smile on their face is just as bad as an insult from someone who is cursing at you.  I am amazed that you seem to have ignored that fact that being told you are inferior by virtue of being gay is somehow less offensive just because it came from a smiling, middle aged woman who is dressed nicely.  She doesn&#8217;t deserve a pass.  An insult is an insult. Being passive and kissing ass is not going to get us anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: CPT_Doom</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72055</link>
		<dc:creator>CPT_Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72055</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;All BGLT friends of Ms. Lingle should immediately scratch her name off their Christmas Card list.&lt;/i&gt;

That will teach the Jewish governor :-)

Seriously, I am with you, but you are being far too tame. I believe that actions like Lingle&#039;s, which apparently happened just after she spent time at Pride with PFLAG members, demand nothing less than shunning. 

I am of the camp that bigotry=believing straight people are better than gays, no matter how nice or &quot;tolerant&quot; you might be to LGBT people in your life. And I am very sure there are such people in Lingle&#039;s life, whether she&#039;s a self-hating closet case or not. Those people need to simply cut off their reliationships with her. I understand the leader of the Hawaii House is a gay man - he should refuse to interact with the Governor unless it is directly required by his professional duties. Any other LGBT people that regularly run into Lingle - and I mean down to the waiter at her favorite restaurant - should refuse to have any personal relationship with her. If you&#039;re a Hawaii LGBT business owner, refuse to allow the Governor in your place of business (it&#039;s totally legal to refuse service to any individual, as long as your reason is specific to that person). Don&#039;t wait on her at the Post Office, don&#039;t smile at her when she passes you in the Hall, and if she tries to interact with you, tell her she&#039;s a bigot and turn your back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>All BGLT friends of Ms. Lingle should immediately scratch her name off their Christmas Card list.</i></p>
<p>That will teach the Jewish governor :-)</p>
<p>Seriously, I am with you, but you are being far too tame. I believe that actions like Lingle&#8217;s, which apparently happened just after she spent time at Pride with PFLAG members, demand nothing less than shunning. </p>
<p>I am of the camp that bigotry=believing straight people are better than gays, no matter how nice or &#8220;tolerant&#8221; you might be to LGBT people in your life. And I am very sure there are such people in Lingle&#8217;s life, whether she&#8217;s a self-hating closet case or not. Those people need to simply cut off their reliationships with her. I understand the leader of the Hawaii House is a gay man &#8211; he should refuse to interact with the Governor unless it is directly required by his professional duties. Any other LGBT people that regularly run into Lingle &#8211; and I mean down to the waiter at her favorite restaurant &#8211; should refuse to have any personal relationship with her. If you&#8217;re a Hawaii LGBT business owner, refuse to allow the Governor in your place of business (it&#8217;s totally legal to refuse service to any individual, as long as your reason is specific to that person). Don&#8217;t wait on her at the Post Office, don&#8217;t smile at her when she passes you in the Hall, and if she tries to interact with you, tell her she&#8217;s a bigot and turn your back.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72048</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72048</guid>
		<description>Timothy said &quot;I do not believe that Hawaii Governor Linda Lingle is a bigot. I have not witnessed overt hostility towards gay Hawaiians or a pattern of anti-gay activism on her part.&quot;.

Denying gays and lesbians the same rights heterosexuals have is an act of overt hostility.  Its baffling that you can&#039;t see that and regularly want to show deference to those who seek to hurt us - must be stockholm syndrome.

Regan said &quot;why choose a bigoted policy if you are not in fact a bigot?&quot;.

Exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy said &#8220;I do not believe that Hawaii Governor Linda Lingle is a bigot. I have not witnessed overt hostility towards gay Hawaiians or a pattern of anti-gay activism on her part.&#8221;.</p>
<p>Denying gays and lesbians the same rights heterosexuals have is an act of overt hostility.  Its baffling that you can&#8217;t see that and regularly want to show deference to those who seek to hurt us &#8211; must be stockholm syndrome.</p>
<p>Regan said &#8220;why choose a bigoted policy if you are not in fact a bigot?&#8221;.</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Mortanius</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72045</link>
		<dc:creator>Mortanius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72045</guid>
		<description>Voting on Civil Rights. Amen! That&#039;s their God Given Right to allow a simple majority vote. Heck, why don&#039;t they just vote off all Black people? Or White People? Or Woman&#039;s rights? After all if it&#039;s up to the people of Hawaii then by god let them decide everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voting on Civil Rights. Amen! That&#8217;s their God Given Right to allow a simple majority vote. Heck, why don&#8217;t they just vote off all Black people? Or White People? Or Woman&#8217;s rights? After all if it&#8217;s up to the people of Hawaii then by god let them decide everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24106/comment-page-1#comment-72044</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24106#comment-72044</guid>
		<description>&quot;I was similarly touched by the mother who in the same office expressed anguish at the prospect of the public schools teaching her children that the Jewish religion was as equally fulfilling and relevant as their mother and father&#039;s religion, Christianity.&quot;

&quot;I was similarly touched by the mother who in the same office expressed anguish at the prospect of the public schools teaching her children that a mixed-race marriage was equivalent to their mother and father’s racially pure marriage.&quot;

For all this &quot;thinking of the children,&quot; I wonder how often Lingle thinks of the children of gay couples. &quot;Sorry sweetie, your family isn&#039;t a real family, you have 2 mommies!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I was similarly touched by the mother who in the same office expressed anguish at the prospect of the public schools teaching her children that the Jewish religion was as equally fulfilling and relevant as their mother and father&#8217;s religion, Christianity.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I was similarly touched by the mother who in the same office expressed anguish at the prospect of the public schools teaching her children that a mixed-race marriage was equivalent to their mother and father’s racially pure marriage.&#8221;</p>
<p>For all this &#8220;thinking of the children,&#8221; I wonder how often Lingle thinks of the children of gay couples. &#8220;Sorry sweetie, your family isn&#8217;t a real family, you have 2 mommies!&#8221;</p>
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