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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;families&#8221; on NOM&#8217;s Big Bus of Animus are fake,</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: lurker</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-73074</link>
		<dc:creator>lurker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 04:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-73074</guid>
		<description>and isn&#039;t it nice how all the model families are not only straight, but that none of them are interracial?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and isn&#8217;t it nice how all the model families are not only straight, but that none of them are interracial?</p>
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		<title>By: TJMcFisty</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-73013</link>
		<dc:creator>TJMcFisty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-73013</guid>
		<description>Oh, and Good As You has already followed up, I see. That&#039;s done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Good As You has already followed up, I see. That&#8217;s done.</p>
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		<title>By: TJMcFisty</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-73012</link>
		<dc:creator>TJMcFisty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-73012</guid>
		<description>Yep, current designer here. I always assume stock when looking at ads unless told otherwise, and for the most part, non-stock is proudly noted.

Also a heavy iStockphoto user. Doubt there&#039;s really a case to be had cuz all NOM needs is a quick disclaimer. They could hurriedly write it on the side of the bus if they needed to. If the photographers themselves (iStockphoto is just a distributor/wrangler) have issues with it, they can follow up and apply cease &#039;n&#039; desist all they want. And that I seriously doubt they can enforce it unless they had expressly written permissions on their page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, current designer here. I always assume stock when looking at ads unless told otherwise, and for the most part, non-stock is proudly noted.</p>
<p>Also a heavy iStockphoto user. Doubt there&#8217;s really a case to be had cuz all NOM needs is a quick disclaimer. They could hurriedly write it on the side of the bus if they needed to. If the photographers themselves (iStockphoto is just a distributor/wrangler) have issues with it, they can follow up and apply cease &#8216;n&#8217; desist all they want. And that I seriously doubt they can enforce it unless they had expressly written permissions on their page.</p>
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		<title>By: MJ</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-73007</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-73007</guid>
		<description>My ex-partner was a graphic designer.  This is standard practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My ex-partner was a graphic designer.  This is standard practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-72962</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-72962</guid>
		<description>Some of the pro Prop. 8 commercials used actors as representative of either a organization, a teacher or minister and so on who were neither. The captions under their talking heads implied that they were religious and educational experts.
 These models on the bus, are just that. Models. They are not captioned as anything in particular.

  So I have to agree that it&#039;s not necessary to point it out.

   At the Prop. 8 trial, one of the witnesses in it&#039;s defense, has represented himself as an expert on families and the affect of gay parenting on children.
In reality, most of the defenders of marriage bans have no peer reviewed work or legitimate medical and psychiatric bodies that agree with them.
And Prop. 8&#039;s witness had only ONE article published and that was on cabinetry.

     I don&#039;t really care what kinds of PHYSICAL models NOM uses to try and portray families as healthy and good looking.
Gay folks have done the same thing even for HIV medication ads.

   No, it&#039;s when they misrepresent their experts and their claims that requires exposure and the political support of either that&#039;s worthy of exposure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the pro Prop. 8 commercials used actors as representative of either a organization, a teacher or minister and so on who were neither. The captions under their talking heads implied that they were religious and educational experts.<br />
 These models on the bus, are just that. Models. They are not captioned as anything in particular.</p>
<p>  So I have to agree that it&#8217;s not necessary to point it out.</p>
<p>   At the Prop. 8 trial, one of the witnesses in it&#8217;s defense, has represented himself as an expert on families and the affect of gay parenting on children.<br />
In reality, most of the defenders of marriage bans have no peer reviewed work or legitimate medical and psychiatric bodies that agree with them.<br />
And Prop. 8&#8242;s witness had only ONE article published and that was on cabinetry.</p>
<p>     I don&#8217;t really care what kinds of PHYSICAL models NOM uses to try and portray families as healthy and good looking.<br />
Gay folks have done the same thing even for HIV medication ads.</p>
<p>   No, it&#8217;s when they misrepresent their experts and their claims that requires exposure and the political support of either that&#8217;s worthy of exposure.</p>
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		<title>By: a. mcewen</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-72921</link>
		<dc:creator>a. mcewen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-72921</guid>
		<description>Actually I disagree. NOM&#039;s usage of fake families should be highlighted because it illustrates the phoniness of its message, just like NOM&#039;s decision to use actors in its &quot;Gathering Storm&quot; commercial.

Grouping those two things together make a convincing argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I disagree. NOM&#8217;s usage of fake families should be highlighted because it illustrates the phoniness of its message, just like NOM&#8217;s decision to use actors in its &#8220;Gathering Storm&#8221; commercial.</p>
<p>Grouping those two things together make a convincing argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Rattigan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-72917</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Rattigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-72917</guid>
		<description>Look at this, for example: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,002.pdf (or just look at the image of the cover in the right-hand column of this page).

A child is used to illustrate BTB&#039;s publication &quot;Are Gays a Threat to Children?&quot;. Would I be reasonable in concluding that the child in the picture endorses BTB? That he supports BTB&#039;s political and religious aims? If I found out that it was a posed picture, and the child was a paid model, or that the photo was taken in some context that had nothing to do with BTB or the subject of the publication, would I be justified in complaining? Of course not. It&#039;s just there as an illustration.

Do we really need to get our knickers in a twist over this kind of thing? NOM has enough to answer for without our needing to nitpick at non-issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at this, for example: <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,002.pdf" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,002.pdf</a> (or just look at the image of the cover in the right-hand column of this page).</p>
<p>A child is used to illustrate BTB&#8217;s publication &#8220;Are Gays a Threat to Children?&#8221;. Would I be reasonable in concluding that the child in the picture endorses BTB? That he supports BTB&#8217;s political and religious aims? If I found out that it was a posed picture, and the child was a paid model, or that the photo was taken in some context that had nothing to do with BTB or the subject of the publication, would I be justified in complaining? Of course not. It&#8217;s just there as an illustration.</p>
<p>Do we really need to get our knickers in a twist over this kind of thing? NOM has enough to answer for without our needing to nitpick at non-issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Rattigan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-72916</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Rattigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-72916</guid>
		<description>Scott, I totally disagree that this use would &quot;lead a reasonable person to think that such person uses or personally endorses&quot; NOM.

If merely using an image to illustrate a concept (in this case the &quot;traditional family&quot;) implies the models endorse the message of the group, I can&#039;t really think of *any* way such photos could be used in an ad (even for a business or apoltiical organization) without inviting the same charge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, I totally disagree that this use would &#8220;lead a reasonable person to think that such person uses or personally endorses&#8221; NOM.</p>
<p>If merely using an image to illustrate a concept (in this case the &#8220;traditional family&#8221;) implies the models endorse the message of the group, I can&#8217;t really think of *any* way such photos could be used in an ad (even for a business or apoltiical organization) without inviting the same charge.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-72910</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 04:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-72910</guid>
		<description>Eh. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I enjoy mocking NOM as much as the next gay guy, but this particular dig seems kind of petty. We live in an artificial world. I would imagine political groups of all kinds use stock photos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I enjoy mocking NOM as much as the next gay guy, but this particular dig seems kind of petty. We live in an artificial world. I would imagine political groups of all kinds use stock photos.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/16/24413/comment-page-1#comment-72898</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 00:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24413#comment-72898</guid>
		<description>Check out the &quot;legal agreement&quot; on the istockphoto website. Sounds like NOM may have violated their license agreement by implying that the models endorse discrimination against gays and lesbians. Anyone feel like raising this issue with istockphoto?

The legal agreement reads in part that you cannot display licensed photos (Content):

&quot;that features a model or person in a manner (a) that would lead a reasonable person to think that such person uses or personally endorses any business, product, service, cause, association or other endeavour;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out the &#8220;legal agreement&#8221; on the istockphoto website. Sounds like NOM may have violated their license agreement by implying that the models endorse discrimination against gays and lesbians. Anyone feel like raising this issue with istockphoto?</p>
<p>The legal agreement reads in part that you cannot display licensed photos (Content):</p>
<p>&#8220;that features a model or person in a manner (a) that would lead a reasonable person to think that such person uses or personally endorses any business, product, service, cause, association or other endeavour;&#8221;</p>
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