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	<title>Comments on: Is Dan Choi paid for activism?</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Demand Equality</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74226</link>
		<dc:creator>Demand Equality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 04:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74226</guid>
		<description>I think I will trust what Dan Choi said.  He said that he has not spoken to his father in almost a year. He was told, he said, that the discharge was sent to his father&#039;s home and that his father had not called to tell him he had received mail for him.  Dan said that he had not received the telephone calls that were allegedly made to him.

Of course not knowing Mr Choi, I don&#039;t know if he would think it is worth getting arrested to get more money to speak.  He looked and said he was shaken by the first arrest after he chained himself to the White House fence. 

But Dan Choi has gone where most people writing here might not dare to go - Afghanistan and Iraq - so I&#039;ll trust Dan Choi and not some anonymous agents (and if this really is his agent he forgot that he is supposed to represent his client not throw him under some bus) or &quot;gay soldiers&quot; who won&#039;t or can&#039;t come out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I will trust what Dan Choi said.  He said that he has not spoken to his father in almost a year. He was told, he said, that the discharge was sent to his father&#8217;s home and that his father had not called to tell him he had received mail for him.  Dan said that he had not received the telephone calls that were allegedly made to him.</p>
<p>Of course not knowing Mr Choi, I don&#8217;t know if he would think it is worth getting arrested to get more money to speak.  He looked and said he was shaken by the first arrest after he chained himself to the White House fence. </p>
<p>But Dan Choi has gone where most people writing here might not dare to go &#8211; Afghanistan and Iraq &#8211; so I&#8217;ll trust Dan Choi and not some anonymous agents (and if this really is his agent he forgot that he is supposed to represent his client not throw him under some bus) or &#8220;gay soldiers&#8221; who won&#8217;t or can&#8217;t come out.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74205</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 23:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74205</guid>
		<description>Yes Paula -

It&#039;s time for YOU to come clean now - Where do you work?  What do you do?  What results have you achieved?  What organizations to involve yourself in?  

People who throw stones shouldn&#039;t live in glass houses.

Tell us about yourself - Please spare us your &quot;objective truths&quot; that you feel you must balance the story out with.  What&#039;s your gig?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Paula -</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time for YOU to come clean now &#8211; Where do you work?  What do you do?  What results have you achieved?  What organizations to involve yourself in?  </p>
<p>People who throw stones shouldn&#8217;t live in glass houses.</p>
<p>Tell us about yourself &#8211; Please spare us your &#8220;objective truths&#8221; that you feel you must balance the story out with.  What&#8217;s your gig?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74201</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74201</guid>
		<description>This borderline defamation is not only sleazy (relying as it does entirely on speculation by parties with no direct knowledge and on accusations by &quot;many sources&quot; all of whom are anonymous), it is also fairly ridiculous.  Any money Dan Choi receives comes from organizations who made their own determination that it is worth their while to pay his fee.  No money comes out of gay orgs, so why do any of the gossips care?  

His story will be lecture-worthy for about 18 months tops and that period is nearly over.  If he gets 10-20 paid speaking engagements over the entire course of the story cycle, that would be doing well.  That some people think that this is a great way to get rich quick only shows the utter failure of public education in the US.

Moreover, the &quot;theory&quot; he didn&#039;t reveal his discharge so that he could continue to wear the uniform makes no sense.  If he was discharged, the National Guard would know that, and any appearance he made in uniform, if unlawful,would carry legal risk whether the geniuses at Lez Get Real knew it or not.  So keeping his discharge &quot;secret&quot; from LGR would have no bearing on his ability to wear the uniform risk-free.  Also, the would-be Bob Woodward at LGR makes a further fool of herself by posturing like she has broken open a big story that Choi is on the lecture circuit.  I would think that would be public information and could be obtained through a single google search.  What idiocy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This borderline defamation is not only sleazy (relying as it does entirely on speculation by parties with no direct knowledge and on accusations by &#8220;many sources&#8221; all of whom are anonymous), it is also fairly ridiculous.  Any money Dan Choi receives comes from organizations who made their own determination that it is worth their while to pay his fee.  No money comes out of gay orgs, so why do any of the gossips care?  </p>
<p>His story will be lecture-worthy for about 18 months tops and that period is nearly over.  If he gets 10-20 paid speaking engagements over the entire course of the story cycle, that would be doing well.  That some people think that this is a great way to get rich quick only shows the utter failure of public education in the US.</p>
<p>Moreover, the &#8220;theory&#8221; he didn&#8217;t reveal his discharge so that he could continue to wear the uniform makes no sense.  If he was discharged, the National Guard would know that, and any appearance he made in uniform, if unlawful,would carry legal risk whether the geniuses at Lez Get Real knew it or not.  So keeping his discharge &#8220;secret&#8221; from LGR would have no bearing on his ability to wear the uniform risk-free.  Also, the would-be Bob Woodward at LGR makes a further fool of herself by posturing like she has broken open a big story that Choi is on the lecture circuit.  I would think that would be public information and could be obtained through a single google search.  What idiocy.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74199</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74199</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;But, if Nathan’s report is true, it does provide some explanation for Choi’s recent actions. And it does flavor my perspective on his character and my willingness to support his activism decisions without question.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wait a minute. He handcuffed himself twice to the White House fence and garnered CNN coverage BEFORE he was discharged from the Army. His more recent actions, whether they were before or after his discharge (or before or after he learned of his discharge) appear, to me, little different. So I’m not sure what the point is about Choi’s most recent activism, given that it seems pretty much the same as what he has always been doing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I do not see Choi&#039;s efforts in Vegas or the Rotunda as similar in message, purpose, or intent to his original activism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>But, if Nathan’s report is true, it does provide some explanation for Choi’s recent actions. And it does flavor my perspective on his character and my willingness to support his activism decisions without question.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wait a minute. He handcuffed himself twice to the White House fence and garnered CNN coverage BEFORE he was discharged from the Army. His more recent actions, whether they were before or after his discharge (or before or after he learned of his discharge) appear, to me, little different. So I’m not sure what the point is about Choi’s most recent activism, given that it seems pretty much the same as what he has always been doing.</p></blockquote>
<p>I do not see Choi&#8217;s efforts in Vegas or the Rotunda as similar in message, purpose, or intent to his original activism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74197</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74197</guid>
		<description>Melanie, do us all a favor and get out of the business of writing hit pieces. Sheesh, what are you, some plant from CWA or NOM?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melanie, do us all a favor and get out of the business of writing hit pieces. Sheesh, what are you, some plant from CWA or NOM?</p>
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		<title>By: truthteller</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74195</link>
		<dc:creator>truthteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74195</guid>
		<description>@ Paula Brooks

You seem to have a vendetta against Dan Choi. You post hearsay to discredit him but as you can see It ain&#039;t working. 

&quot;I thought yes finally a leader…. We can follow….&quot;

You don&#039;t want a leader to follow, you want mother Theresa, and Choi ain&#039;t her. He is a soldier trained to fight, not a catholic martyr for the cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Paula Brooks</p>
<p>You seem to have a vendetta against Dan Choi. You post hearsay to discredit him but as you can see It ain&#8217;t working. </p>
<p>&#8220;I thought yes finally a leader…. We can follow….&#8221;</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t want a leader to follow, you want mother Theresa, and Choi ain&#8217;t her. He is a soldier trained to fight, not a catholic martyr for the cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott P.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74188</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74188</guid>
		<description>Brava, Desiree, my thought exactly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brava, Desiree, my thought exactly!</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74187</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74187</guid>
		<description>All I care about is his effectiveness. If he gets done what needs to be done, then he deserves every penny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I care about is his effectiveness. If he gets done what needs to be done, then he deserves every penny.</p>
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		<title>By: Désirée</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74186</link>
		<dc:creator>Désirée</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74186</guid>
		<description>&quot;when you ACT for reward you focus not on the deed but on the doer. When there is no thought of the reward then there is no thought of the doer. When there is no thought of the doer, the deed is done with simplicity and grace- this is living with awe! (from Ethics of the Sages)&quot;

This is nonsense and a great way to become a starving homeless person.  ALL actions are done for the rewards, be they monetary, professional, ego inspired, or for some other personal gain.  There is no such thing as a selfless act, and expecting Dan Choi (or any one else) to act selflessly &quot;for the cause&quot; is idealistic garbage.  That Melanie Nathan doesn&#039;t get paid for her activism is in no way relevant and is not a reason for Dan Choi to not get paid for his.  You (Melanie) have still yet to provide a reason why Dan should not get paid a speakers fee for a speaking engagement.  Last I checked, this was a capitalistic country (mostly) not a socialist utopia where everyone works for the benefit of everyone else with no thought for their own well being.  Let it go.  You claim not to be jealous, but the very fact you brought your own activism and lack of pay for it belies that claim.  Your entire arguement boils down to &quot;he got paid therefore he isn&#039;t pure enough to be an activist.&quot;  I for one, don&#039;t subscribe to such a theory. sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;when you ACT for reward you focus not on the deed but on the doer. When there is no thought of the reward then there is no thought of the doer. When there is no thought of the doer, the deed is done with simplicity and grace- this is living with awe! (from Ethics of the Sages)&#8221;</p>
<p>This is nonsense and a great way to become a starving homeless person.  ALL actions are done for the rewards, be they monetary, professional, ego inspired, or for some other personal gain.  There is no such thing as a selfless act, and expecting Dan Choi (or any one else) to act selflessly &#8220;for the cause&#8221; is idealistic garbage.  That Melanie Nathan doesn&#8217;t get paid for her activism is in no way relevant and is not a reason for Dan Choi to not get paid for his.  You (Melanie) have still yet to provide a reason why Dan should not get paid a speakers fee for a speaking engagement.  Last I checked, this was a capitalistic country (mostly) not a socialist utopia where everyone works for the benefit of everyone else with no thought for their own well being.  Let it go.  You claim not to be jealous, but the very fact you brought your own activism and lack of pay for it belies that claim.  Your entire arguement boils down to &#8220;he got paid therefore he isn&#8217;t pure enough to be an activist.&#8221;  I for one, don&#8217;t subscribe to such a theory. sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/30/24878/comment-page-1#comment-74185</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24878#comment-74185</guid>
		<description>Choi no longer has a job. He does have to make a living. I see no reason for that to be grounds for suspicion. 

As to this statement:

&lt;blockquote&gt;But, if Nathan’s report is true, it does provide some explanation for Choi’s recent actions. And it does flavor my perspective on his character and my willingness to support his activism decisions without question.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wait a minute. He handcuffed himself twice to the White House fence and garnered CNN coverage BEFORE he was discharged from the Army. His more recent actions, whether they were before or after his discharge (or before or after he learned of his discharge) appear, to me, little different. So I&#039;m not sure what the point is about Choi&#039;s most recent activism, given that it seems pretty much the same as what he has always been doing.

As to who said what to whom through third parties, etc. I&#039;m disappointed that we&#039;re giving so much credence to third- and fourth-hand information. 

I think it&#039;s fine to critique the &lt;em&gt;effectiveness&lt;/em&gt; of his direct actions. I thought his handcuffing himself to the White House fence was very effective, if for no other reason that he got coverage from major news outlets. The more recent protests in the Capital Rotunda and Las Vegas, not so much. GetEqual seems to have trouble getting the media to notice, and it seems to me that they could use some professional help in this area. After all, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it...

The complaints about Choi getting speakers fees and travel expenses remind me of the most recent fundraising dinner for Wingspan, our local LGBT community center in Tucson. Judy Shepard came to speak. Or, more precisely, she was paid to speak, and paid to travel here. Yes, she collected what was described as a &quot;large&quot; speaker&#039;s fee. And for that fee, we were all disappointed that she spoke for maybe seven minutes. Tops.

But that doesn&#039;t in any way diminish the tremendously important work that she and her foundation have done to advance hate crimes legislation at the state and federal level. If the money Wingspan paid was to buy a half-hour address, they didn&#039;t get their money&#039;s worth. But if the money they paid was to help support the Shepard Foundation&#039;s important work, then it was money well spent.

I guess what I&#039;m getting at is that it is easy to criticize a lot of people for not being effective in what they are doing, or in perhaps not employing the tactics that we wish they would deploy. 

But hey. Direct action is not my thing. And getting arrested is DEFINITELY not my thing. My thing is writing, and speaking where people will have me to speak. Choi&#039;s thing is acting up and getting arrested. More power to him. And hopefully more and better media coverage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Choi no longer has a job. He does have to make a living. I see no reason for that to be grounds for suspicion. </p>
<p>As to this statement:</p>
<blockquote><p>But, if Nathan’s report is true, it does provide some explanation for Choi’s recent actions. And it does flavor my perspective on his character and my willingness to support his activism decisions without question.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wait a minute. He handcuffed himself twice to the White House fence and garnered CNN coverage BEFORE he was discharged from the Army. His more recent actions, whether they were before or after his discharge (or before or after he learned of his discharge) appear, to me, little different. So I&#8217;m not sure what the point is about Choi&#8217;s most recent activism, given that it seems pretty much the same as what he has always been doing.</p>
<p>As to who said what to whom through third parties, etc. I&#8217;m disappointed that we&#8217;re giving so much credence to third- and fourth-hand information. </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s fine to critique the <em>effectiveness</em> of his direct actions. I thought his handcuffing himself to the White House fence was very effective, if for no other reason that he got coverage from major news outlets. The more recent protests in the Capital Rotunda and Las Vegas, not so much. GetEqual seems to have trouble getting the media to notice, and it seems to me that they could use some professional help in this area. After all, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it&#8230;</p>
<p>The complaints about Choi getting speakers fees and travel expenses remind me of the most recent fundraising dinner for Wingspan, our local LGBT community center in Tucson. Judy Shepard came to speak. Or, more precisely, she was paid to speak, and paid to travel here. Yes, she collected what was described as a &#8220;large&#8221; speaker&#8217;s fee. And for that fee, we were all disappointed that she spoke for maybe seven minutes. Tops.</p>
<p>But that doesn&#8217;t in any way diminish the tremendously important work that she and her foundation have done to advance hate crimes legislation at the state and federal level. If the money Wingspan paid was to buy a half-hour address, they didn&#8217;t get their money&#8217;s worth. But if the money they paid was to help support the Shepard Foundation&#8217;s important work, then it was money well spent.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m getting at is that it is easy to criticize a lot of people for not being effective in what they are doing, or in perhaps not employing the tactics that we wish they would deploy. </p>
<p>But hey. Direct action is not my thing. And getting arrested is DEFINITELY not my thing. My thing is writing, and speaking where people will have me to speak. Choi&#8217;s thing is acting up and getting arrested. More power to him. And hopefully more and better media coverage.</p>
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