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	<title>Comments on: NOM in Des Moines</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Terence Weldon</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74379</link>
		<dc:creator>Terence Weldon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 08:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74379</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s worth reflecting on the record of opposition in Iowa since the court judgement was handed down. Immediately afterwards, opinion polls showed clearly that most Iowans were opposed - and immediately there were loud calls to start the process towards changing the state constitution.

Some months later, an important poll showed that Iowans remained opposed - but  did not want the constitution tinkered with. The most recent poll showed that most Iowans now support marriage equality.

In two election cycles - one special election last year, and in this year&#039;s GOP primaries for the state legislature, NOM poured money into campaigns for candidates promising to initiate a ballot to overturn marriage equality - and reports were that their candidates lost big time.

In Iowa, NOM has lost already, and marriage is safe. 

More generally, this example shows that even in the rural mid-west, once people have lived with marriage equality for a while, they get used to it and get on with their lives - just as they did earlier with interracial marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worth reflecting on the record of opposition in Iowa since the court judgement was handed down. Immediately afterwards, opinion polls showed clearly that most Iowans were opposed &#8211; and immediately there were loud calls to start the process towards changing the state constitution.</p>
<p>Some months later, an important poll showed that Iowans remained opposed &#8211; but  did not want the constitution tinkered with. The most recent poll showed that most Iowans now support marriage equality.</p>
<p>In two election cycles &#8211; one special election last year, and in this year&#8217;s GOP primaries for the state legislature, NOM poured money into campaigns for candidates promising to initiate a ballot to overturn marriage equality &#8211; and reports were that their candidates lost big time.</p>
<p>In Iowa, NOM has lost already, and marriage is safe. </p>
<p>More generally, this example shows that even in the rural mid-west, once people have lived with marriage equality for a while, they get used to it and get on with their lives &#8211; just as they did earlier with interracial marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: cd</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74344</link>
		<dc:creator>cd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74344</guid>
		<description>The anti-marriage activists have been trial ballooning &#039;civil rights&#039; for a couple of months.

This involves a bizarre misinterpretation of the First Amendment which essentially gives the individual religious person immunity from complying with and respect for any and all &#039;anti-religious&#039; laws.  (I.e. gay marriage.)  It&#039;s a very weird concept in which every religion-claiming individual basically gets the First Amendment rights of an established religious organizations.  It&#039;s frankly an assertion of individual privilege based on religion.  They want to take that an extend it to a protective shield for all the organizations and activities they like against e.g. marriage legalization, atheist speech, and the like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The anti-marriage activists have been trial ballooning &#8216;civil rights&#8217; for a couple of months.</p>
<p>This involves a bizarre misinterpretation of the First Amendment which essentially gives the individual religious person immunity from complying with and respect for any and all &#8216;anti-religious&#8217; laws.  (I.e. gay marriage.)  It&#8217;s a very weird concept in which every religion-claiming individual basically gets the First Amendment rights of an established religious organizations.  It&#8217;s frankly an assertion of individual privilege based on religion.  They want to take that an extend it to a protective shield for all the organizations and activities they like against e.g. marriage legalization, atheist speech, and the like.</p>
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		<title>By: David C.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74280</link>
		<dc:creator>David C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 04:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74280</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;All the same, bear in mind you are actually up against CRC Public Relations….&lt;i&gt;—&lt;b&gt;AdrianT&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
And said agency is trying to teach a pig—or at least represent a pig with an essentially repugnant message—to sing. The exposure will most likely in the final analysis have the opposite effect NOM would like. 

I&#039;ve given up on the culture warriors that are on NOM&#039;s side—their minds are made up. The rest of the body politick is movable and less likely to be influenced by NOM&#039;s scare or smear tactics. An influential agency can get NOM access to and placement with media along with a polished presentation. We&#039;re just as good at it and in fact likely better diversified in our approach to messaging and reach.

Time runs short for NOM which is why these last ditch efforts are being undertaken in the hopes of regaining some kind of momentum. This tour thing has essentially been a failure, and no amount of spinning will change that fact. Once their ability to effectively influence opinion is proven to be miniscule, they will simply cease to exist. That day cannot come soon enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>All the same, bear in mind you are actually up against CRC Public Relations….<i>—<b>AdrianT</b></i></p></blockquote>
<p>And said agency is trying to teach a pig—or at least represent a pig with an essentially repugnant message—to sing. The exposure will most likely in the final analysis have the opposite effect NOM would like. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve given up on the culture warriors that are on NOM&#8217;s side—their minds are made up. The rest of the body politick is movable and less likely to be influenced by NOM&#8217;s scare or smear tactics. An influential agency can get NOM access to and placement with media along with a polished presentation. We&#8217;re just as good at it and in fact likely better diversified in our approach to messaging and reach.</p>
<p>Time runs short for NOM which is why these last ditch efforts are being undertaken in the hopes of regaining some kind of momentum. This tour thing has essentially been a failure, and no amount of spinning will change that fact. Once their ability to effectively influence opinion is proven to be miniscule, they will simply cease to exist. That day cannot come soon enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Respect your welders</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74275</link>
		<dc:creator>Respect your welders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 00:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74275</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I know, he&#039;s very foolish to ever use the phrase &quot;civil rights&quot; -- to have that term and concept in the air in the discussions here.  Joe and Mary Public are always going to associate that phrase, and rightly so, overwhelmingly with our side.  Gay people -- who have an undeniable history of oppression (Anita Bryant, Cracker Barrel, Matthew Shepard, Lawrence King, Colorado Amendment 2, Oregon Measure 9, Briggs Initiative, former massive ostracism, etc. etc.) -- being prevented from marrying their partners has way more of a traditional civil rights feel than does people who oppose the expansion of marriage to homosexual couples not being able to assert that position through a vote.  You have to take several leaps and twists to get to the latter as a &quot;civil right struggle.&quot;

Part of me can understand their frustration.  Right now, it *might* be possible that if expansion of marriage to same-sex couples were put to a vote in Iowa, it would fail.  (Still better odds would occur in states with the lowest education and literacy levels.  Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas come to mind.)  Right now.  In a few years (or even months) that&#039;s not going to be the case.  And what will NOM say then?

But a larger part of me feels like Wanda Sykes when she said:  If you don&#039;t believe in same-sex marriage, then don&#039;t get married to someone of the same sex.

Otherwise, you know, a not visibly disabled, white, male, probably Christian, probably heterosexual Brian Brown doesn&#039;t seem to have a whole lot of civil rights cred.

So in all, his couching NOM as a &quot;civil rights struggle&quot; is pretty darn silly.

There&#039;s a kind of Darwin Awards quality to all this.  They have a morally untenable position, and consequently all their attempts to be assertive, or make use of rational argument, are going to do them in.  While if they go an emotional route (e.g., the Peter LaBarbera gay-people-are-filthy school), well, they are going to have about same level of repulsive force and non-credibility of Peter LaBarbera and Brian Camenker (both of whom were unwelcome in Maine).

They&#039;re screwed.  I mean, they really are.  If they say or do nothing, the cultural shifts will continue.  If they put on tours, they energize and galvanize opposition that exceeds their force numerically and in spirit -- adding a bump of acceleration to the aforementioned cultural shifts.  They just have no good options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I know, he&#8217;s very foolish to ever use the phrase &#8220;civil rights&#8221; &#8212; to have that term and concept in the air in the discussions here.  Joe and Mary Public are always going to associate that phrase, and rightly so, overwhelmingly with our side.  Gay people &#8212; who have an undeniable history of oppression (Anita Bryant, Cracker Barrel, Matthew Shepard, Lawrence King, Colorado Amendment 2, Oregon Measure 9, Briggs Initiative, former massive ostracism, etc. etc.) &#8212; being prevented from marrying their partners has way more of a traditional civil rights feel than does people who oppose the expansion of marriage to homosexual couples not being able to assert that position through a vote.  You have to take several leaps and twists to get to the latter as a &#8220;civil right struggle.&#8221;</p>
<p>Part of me can understand their frustration.  Right now, it *might* be possible that if expansion of marriage to same-sex couples were put to a vote in Iowa, it would fail.  (Still better odds would occur in states with the lowest education and literacy levels.  Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas come to mind.)  Right now.  In a few years (or even months) that&#8217;s not going to be the case.  And what will NOM say then?</p>
<p>But a larger part of me feels like Wanda Sykes when she said:  If you don&#8217;t believe in same-sex marriage, then don&#8217;t get married to someone of the same sex.</p>
<p>Otherwise, you know, a not visibly disabled, white, male, probably Christian, probably heterosexual Brian Brown doesn&#8217;t seem to have a whole lot of civil rights cred.</p>
<p>So in all, his couching NOM as a &#8220;civil rights struggle&#8221; is pretty darn silly.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a kind of Darwin Awards quality to all this.  They have a morally untenable position, and consequently all their attempts to be assertive, or make use of rational argument, are going to do them in.  While if they go an emotional route (e.g., the Peter LaBarbera gay-people-are-filthy school), well, they are going to have about same level of repulsive force and non-credibility of Peter LaBarbera and Brian Camenker (both of whom were unwelcome in Maine).</p>
<p>They&#8217;re screwed.  I mean, they really are.  If they say or do nothing, the cultural shifts will continue.  If they put on tours, they energize and galvanize opposition that exceeds their force numerically and in spirit &#8212; adding a bump of acceleration to the aforementioned cultural shifts.  They just have no good options.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74272</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74272</guid>
		<description>Stephen,

NOM is FAR less popular than the Tea Party.  Their Des Moines rally in April drew between 1,500 and 2,000.  NOM doesn&#039;t have a tenth of their appeal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>NOM is FAR less popular than the Tea Party.  Their Des Moines rally in April drew between 1,500 and 2,000.  NOM doesn&#8217;t have a tenth of their appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: AdrianT</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74270</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrianT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74270</guid>
		<description>All the same, bear in mind you are actually up against CRC Public Relations (crcpublicrelations.com, with an enviable client list) who are managing the whole affair behind the scenes, and pumping out press releases about how the  NOM supporters are under siege from equality supporters.  They have turned the sign with the two hanging nooses into a smear campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the same, bear in mind you are actually up against CRC Public Relations (crcpublicrelations.com, with an enviable client list) who are managing the whole affair behind the scenes, and pumping out press releases about how the  NOM supporters are under siege from equality supporters.  They have turned the sign with the two hanging nooses into a smear campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74269</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74269</guid>
		<description>These &#039;rallies&#039; seem to have about the same appeal as the recent teabagger rallies. The same people seem to show up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These &#8216;rallies&#8217; seem to have about the same appeal as the recent teabagger rallies. The same people seem to show up.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74268</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74268</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Srivastav (Maggie Gallagher) has finished her portion of the tour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Srivastav (Maggie Gallagher) has finished her portion of the tour.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74267</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74267</guid>
		<description>Oh, and speaking of magic, I&#039;m sure Raman Srivastav is still invisible, but does anyone know if his wife was at the rally in Des Moines today?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and speaking of magic, I&#8217;m sure Raman Srivastav is still invisible, but does anyone know if his wife was at the rally in Des Moines today?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/01/24925/comment-page-1#comment-74265</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=24925#comment-74265</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;. . . Brian Brown has decided to begin (absurdly) claiming that his effort to deny equality to gay people is the “new civil rights struggle.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I commonly apply the term &quot;Magic Truth&quot; to many assertions from the reality-challenged crowd, but even the legendary Houdini could not have turned that notion into truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>. . . Brian Brown has decided to begin (absurdly) claiming that his effort to deny equality to gay people is the “new civil rights struggle.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I commonly apply the term &#8220;Magic Truth&#8221; to many assertions from the reality-challenged crowd, but even the legendary Houdini could not have turned that notion into truth.</p>
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