Comments on: The Trend Toward Acceptance http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:24:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Jason D http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75732 Jason D Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:30:56 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75732 customartist has a point. They object to A LOT of the freedoms that exist in this country. More than once, in reference to LGBT politics I've heard the declaration "there's no constitutional right to sin!" For awhile now we've been low hanging fruit(pardon the pun). If issues such as drinking, gambling, and premarital sex were also in the same vulnerable place we are, they would definitely pursue those issues as well. Since they're not, all but the most extreme among them view it as a minor annoyance having to explain that God's Laws and Man's Laws are different. Someone once noted a few years back that LGBT rights are pretty much the stake through the heart of Christian dominance. Their last stand. Once this is lost (and they will lose, guaranteed) Christianity will have to reform itself to accomidate reality, or risk becoming obsolete to those who do. customartist has a point. They object to A LOT of the freedoms that exist in this country. More than once, in reference to LGBT politics I’ve heard the declaration “there’s no constitutional right to sin!”

For awhile now we’ve been low hanging fruit(pardon the pun). If issues such as drinking, gambling, and premarital sex were also in the same vulnerable place we are, they would definitely pursue those issues as well. Since they’re not, all but the most extreme among them view it as a minor annoyance having to explain that God’s Laws and Man’s Laws are different.

Someone once noted a few years back that LGBT rights are pretty much the stake through the heart of Christian dominance. Their last stand. Once this is lost (and they will lose, guaranteed) Christianity will have to reform itself to accomidate reality, or risk becoming obsolete to those who do.

]]> By: cd http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75731 cd Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:28:05 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75731 Ok, I think I've found the explanation for this poll. It's essentially the same thing as this: (May) http://www.gallup.com/poll/135764/americans-acceptance-gay-relations-crosses-threshold.aspx (June) http://www.gallup.com/poll/108115/americans-evenly-divided-morality-homosexuality.aspx (These made serious splashes internally among the social reactionaries. Of the Oh Noez the political game is lost the culture is doomed variety.) The problem with these polls is that they measure a composite, i.e. an average between two different issues in the public mind. The one is the moral permissibility of gay sex per se, which currently has real support in the high sixties percentages. (The signature public issue remaining there is DADT.) The other is SSM, with current real support in the low forties. The midpoint between the two is in the low or mid fifties. The fact that the composite is polling increasingly close to the midpoint between its two components suggests to me that anti-gay bias, i.e. animus and refusal to give gay people benefit of doubt, are diminishing fast in the middle of the spectrum of opinion. I think that's the deeper message of these polls. Ok, I think I’ve found the explanation for this poll. It’s essentially the same thing as this:

(May)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/135764/americans-acceptance-gay-relations-crosses-threshold.aspx
(June)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108115/americans-evenly-divided-morality-homosexuality.aspx

(These made serious splashes internally among the social reactionaries. Of the Oh Noez the political game is lost the culture is doomed variety.)

The problem with these polls is that they measure a composite, i.e. an average between two different issues in the public mind. The one is the moral permissibility of gay sex per se, which currently has real support in the high sixties percentages. (The signature public issue remaining there is DADT.) The other is SSM, with current real support in the low forties. The midpoint between the two is in the low or mid fifties.

The fact that the composite is polling increasingly close to the midpoint between its two components suggests to me that anti-gay bias, i.e. animus and refusal to give gay people benefit of doubt, are diminishing fast in the middle of the spectrum of opinion.

I think that’s the deeper message of these polls.

]]> By: customartist http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75729 customartist Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:17:12 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75729 At every opportuntiy I relate withholding Gay Rights to the potential of having the Rights of Other groups withheld. This is not just about Gays. Which other groups would Religious people attempt to withhold or remove? Answer: Those of any people who do not adhere to THEIR definition of Religious Morality. At every opportuntiy I relate withholding Gay Rights to the potential of having the Rights of Other groups withheld.

This is not just about Gays. Which other groups would Religious people attempt to withhold or remove?

Answer: Those of any people who do not adhere to THEIR definition of Religious Morality.

]]> By: L. Junius Brutus http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75652 L. Junius Brutus Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:39:48 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75652 Wow, and I thought I was sex-obsessed. I didn't even notice. Well, another illusion gone. Wow, and I thought I was sex-obsessed. I didn’t even notice. Well, another illusion gone.

]]> By: AJD http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75647 AJD Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:10:40 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75647 In addition to illustrating an unusually shaped penis, this graph also illustrates the real reason for all these marriage amendments: The religious right knows that the trend of public opinion is against them, so they want to make same-sex marriage permanently illegal. The trick is that even if public opinion is something like 75% on our side, getting rid of an amendment to the federal constitution could possibly take decades. On the one hand, it's easy to laugh and compare them to cornered animals, but on the other, the amount of damage that cornered animals are capable of in moments of desperation is scary. In addition to illustrating an unusually shaped penis, this graph also illustrates the real reason for all these marriage amendments: The religious right knows that the trend of public opinion is against them, so they want to make same-sex marriage permanently illegal. The trick is that even if public opinion is something like 75% on our side, getting rid of an amendment to the federal constitution could possibly take decades.

On the one hand, it’s easy to laugh and compare them to cornered animals, but on the other, the amount of damage that cornered animals are capable of in moments of desperation is scary.

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75632 Timothy Kincaid Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:26:33 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75632 Like most issues, I suspect that a handful of folks really really support same sex marriage and a smaller handful really really oppose it. The rest are subject to ads, TV shows, the weather, what they ate that morning for breakfast, what their friends said, whether their colorful waiter last night was attentive, whether the short-haired woman who changed their oil told them that no, they don't really need a new air filter this time, and so on. Like most issues, I suspect that a handful of folks really really support same sex marriage and a smaller handful really really oppose it. The rest are subject to ads, TV shows, the weather, what they ate that morning for breakfast, what their friends said, whether their colorful waiter last night was attentive, whether the short-haired woman who changed their oil told them that no, they don’t really need a new air filter this time, and so on.

]]> By: Lindoro Almaviva http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75629 Lindoro Almaviva Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:17:26 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75629 Oh thank God i was not the only one who saw an accidental penis Oh thank God i was not the only one who saw an accidental penis

]]> By: DN http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75613 DN Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:53:33 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75613 Nate Silver is the best. I can see why you guys go to him as often as you do, since he's all about actual analysis and facts. Nate Silver is the best. I can see why you guys go to him as often as you do, since he’s all about actual analysis and facts.

]]> By: Jason D http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75602 Jason D Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:15:56 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75602 "Well, the claim that our opponents keep making about gay marriage polls is this: if this is true, then how come even the most liberal states keep rejecting gay marriage? If 45-46% of people support gay marriage, is it truly credible that support in a very liberal state like Maine is only 47% (despite us outspending our opponents?" Simple. The people who support it are a)lying to pollsters but not at the ballot box b)changing their minds at the ballot box c)not enough of them are voting I don't know the average, but I do know that voter turnout is significantly less than the number of people eligible to vote. If 60% of eligible voters are supportive but only 20% of them actually vote, that's a problem. “Well, the claim that our opponents keep making about gay marriage polls is this: if this is true, then how come even the most liberal states keep rejecting gay marriage? If 45-46% of people support gay marriage, is it truly credible that support in a very liberal state like Maine is only 47% (despite us outspending our opponents?”

Simple.

The people who support it are

a)lying to pollsters but not at the ballot box

b)changing their minds at the ballot box

c)not enough of them are voting

I don’t know the average, but I do know that voter turnout is significantly less than the number of people eligible to vote. If 60% of eligible voters are supportive but only 20% of them actually vote, that’s a problem.

]]> By: Hall http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/12/25333/comment-page-1#comment-75599 Hall Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:53:31 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25333#comment-75599 Whenever marriage was put to a vote for almost all constitutional amendments, it was done in order to bring more conservative voters to the polls. I don't believe that support for same-sex marriage as a whole in the United States is that high, however I also don't believe that it is as low as many of the marriage amendment results have shown. Whenever marriage was put to a vote for almost all constitutional amendments, it was done in order to bring more conservative voters to the polls. I don’t believe that support for same-sex marriage as a whole in the United States is that high, however I also don’t believe that it is as low as many of the marriage amendment results have shown.

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