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	<title>Comments on: Exodus Denied Tax-Exempt Status in New Zealand</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: John in the Bay Area</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77630</link>
		<dc:creator>John in the Bay Area</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 20:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77630</guid>
		<description>Timothy,

I don&#039;t know how active the KKK is now, if at all.  However, the US does punish groups, perhaps indirectly for their politics and ideology, under the Patriot Act.  Donations to a terrorist organization (or the humanitarian arm of such organizations-like Hamas linked charities that provide food and medical care to Palestinians) will result in your tax deduction being denied and possibly facing charges for providing material support to a terrorist organization.  The KKK has been one of the most active terrorist groups in the US.  The number of Americans lynched or otherwise murdered or terrorized by the group is enormous.  

So, I think that a case can be made that contributions to the KKK shouldn&#039;t be tax deductible, and anyone making such donations should be investigated for providing material support to a terrorist organization.

Perhaps another not so great example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how active the KKK is now, if at all.  However, the US does punish groups, perhaps indirectly for their politics and ideology, under the Patriot Act.  Donations to a terrorist organization (or the humanitarian arm of such organizations-like Hamas linked charities that provide food and medical care to Palestinians) will result in your tax deduction being denied and possibly facing charges for providing material support to a terrorist organization.  The KKK has been one of the most active terrorist groups in the US.  The number of Americans lynched or otherwise murdered or terrorized by the group is enormous.  </p>
<p>So, I think that a case can be made that contributions to the KKK shouldn&#8217;t be tax deductible, and anyone making such donations should be investigated for providing material support to a terrorist organization.</p>
<p>Perhaps another not so great example.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77626</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77626</guid>
		<description>Maurice,

I completely and entirely support the right of the KKK to be treated like any other organization.  I adamantly oppose any effort to use the tax code to reward or punish organizations based on the political or other ideology of its participants.

Inequality has a nasty habit of biting those who support it on the ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maurice,</p>
<p>I completely and entirely support the right of the KKK to be treated like any other organization.  I adamantly oppose any effort to use the tax code to reward or punish organizations based on the political or other ideology of its participants.</p>
<p>Inequality has a nasty habit of biting those who support it on the ass.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurice Lacunza</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77623</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurice Lacunza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77623</guid>
		<description>Timothy,
I understand that the blade swings both ways; HRC and others could potentially be affected by tighter tax codes.

My point though is that agencies such as Focus on the Family and God Hates Fags are no different than the Ku Klux Klan. If the activities of a group promote discrimination against women, race, skin color, sexual orientation, or handicap, then such groups ought not enjoy the benefit of tax free donations. 

Many people will still donate money, but, it will be collectively less and I am guessing that a higher accountability will be demanded for how that money is spent. 

It&#039;s a tough one to sort out. For me, I would take the stand that if a group promotes discrimination, then they lose their tax exempt status.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy,<br />
I understand that the blade swings both ways; HRC and others could potentially be affected by tighter tax codes.</p>
<p>My point though is that agencies such as Focus on the Family and God Hates Fags are no different than the Ku Klux Klan. If the activities of a group promote discrimination against women, race, skin color, sexual orientation, or handicap, then such groups ought not enjoy the benefit of tax free donations. </p>
<p>Many people will still donate money, but, it will be collectively less and I am guessing that a higher accountability will be demanded for how that money is spent. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a tough one to sort out. For me, I would take the stand that if a group promotes discrimination, then they lose their tax exempt status.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77561</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77561</guid>
		<description>werda,

quite right.  thanks for the correction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>werda,</p>
<p>quite right.  thanks for the correction.</p>
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		<title>By: toujoursdan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77554</link>
		<dc:creator>toujoursdan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77554</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Do they have a written constitution like the US or unwritten like the UK?&lt;/i&gt;

New Zealand has a number of documents adopted over its century of independence that is referred to as their Constitution. In 1990 they adopted a &lt;a href=&quot;http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/whole.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bill of Rights&lt;/a&gt; which guarantees:

&lt;i&gt;13 Freedom of thought, conscience, and religion

    * Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, and belief, including the right to adopt and to hold opinions without interference.

14 Freedom of expression

    * Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.

15 Manifestation of religion and belief

    * Every person has the right to manifest that person&#039;s religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, or teaching, either individually or in community with others, and either in public or in private. &lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Do they have a written constitution like the US or unwritten like the UK?</i></p>
<p>New Zealand has a number of documents adopted over its century of independence that is referred to as their Constitution. In 1990 they adopted a <a href="http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/whole.html" rel="nofollow">Bill of Rights</a> which guarantees:</p>
<p><i>13 Freedom of thought, conscience, and religion</p>
<p>    * Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, and belief, including the right to adopt and to hold opinions without interference.</p>
<p>14 Freedom of expression</p>
<p>    * Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.</p>
<p>15 Manifestation of religion and belief</p>
<p>    * Every person has the right to manifest that person&#8217;s religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, or teaching, either individually or in community with others, and either in public or in private. </i></p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77551</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77551</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;AMERICA SHOULD DENY TAX EXEMPT STATUS TO CHURCHES. If they can prove that they are not hate mongering nor political, then they could apply for a special tax exempt status.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Are you certain you want to give government bureaucrats and politicians this kind of power to determine whether a group is &quot;hate mongering nor political&quot;?  We have a First Amendment for a very good reason and such a move as this would eviscerate it as partisans from all sides would jump in to silence their foes.  Saying that tax-exempt status has nothing to do with free speech is naive IMO because such an unequal use of government power has a very chilling effect on speech and is not a game we want to play lest OUR side face the same when our foes are in power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>AMERICA SHOULD DENY TAX EXEMPT STATUS TO CHURCHES. If they can prove that they are not hate mongering nor political, then they could apply for a special tax exempt status.</p></blockquote>
<p>Are you certain you want to give government bureaucrats and politicians this kind of power to determine whether a group is &#8220;hate mongering nor political&#8221;?  We have a First Amendment for a very good reason and such a move as this would eviscerate it as partisans from all sides would jump in to silence their foes.  Saying that tax-exempt status has nothing to do with free speech is naive IMO because such an unequal use of government power has a very chilling effect on speech and is not a game we want to play lest OUR side face the same when our foes are in power.</p>
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		<title>By: werdna</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77549</link>
		<dc:creator>werdna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77549</guid>
		<description>Timothy wrote: &quot;To receive tax deductible contributions they can only do an insignificant amount of lobbying for a bill or politician.&quot;

This is not quite right. It&#039;s true that churches and religious organizations can do a certain amount of lobbying for legislation (including ballot initiatives), so long as it is not a &quot;a substantial part of its overall activities&quot;. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;IRS is quite clear&lt;/a&gt;, however, that such groups &quot;are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy wrote: &#8220;To receive tax deductible contributions they can only do an insignificant amount of lobbying for a bill or politician.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not quite right. It&#8217;s true that churches and religious organizations can do a certain amount of lobbying for legislation (including ballot initiatives), so long as it is not a &#8220;a substantial part of its overall activities&#8221;. The <a href="http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf" rel="nofollow">IRS is quite clear</a>, however, that such groups &#8220;are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77525</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 01:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77525</guid>
		<description>John iba,

Bad example on my part.  Duh!

The rules are pretty simple and are up to the organization to follow.  To receive tax deductible contributions they can only do an &lt;i&gt;insignificant&lt;/i&gt; amount of lobbying for a bill or politician.  Thus a church can preach every Sunday about abortion, but needs to tread carefully when there is actual proposed legislation. 

But orgs can attempt to sway public opinion on issues, ideas, concepts, positions, as long as they aren&#039;t directed towards actual legislation.  Exodus does this stuff, and very very seldom weighs in on bills or propositions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John iba,</p>
<p>Bad example on my part.  Duh!</p>
<p>The rules are pretty simple and are up to the organization to follow.  To receive tax deductible contributions they can only do an <i>insignificant</i> amount of lobbying for a bill or politician.  Thus a church can preach every Sunday about abortion, but needs to tread carefully when there is actual proposed legislation. </p>
<p>But orgs can attempt to sway public opinion on issues, ideas, concepts, positions, as long as they aren&#8217;t directed towards actual legislation.  Exodus does this stuff, and very very seldom weighs in on bills or propositions.</p>
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		<title>By: John in the Bay Area</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77521</link>
		<dc:creator>John in the Bay Area</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 00:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77521</guid>
		<description>Timothy,

I no longer contribute to HRC, largely because I felt they were more interested in protecting the Obama Administration than protecting gay and lesbian Americans.

However, when I did contribute, since I knew they were a political lobbying organization, I never treated any donations as tax-deductible.  Perhaps I just don&#039;t understand what is and isn&#039;t deductible, but I really think that a donations to a political lobbying group like HRC or Exodus (which has done a great deal of lobbying around various pieces of legislation) should not be tax deductible.  

I would like to see the rules around tax exempt organizations contributing or lobbying for or against propositions tightened, including the priest or whoever on the altar telling the parishoners to vote for or against this or that particular proposition on the ballot.  I&#039;d like to see these groups lose their tax exempt status for these sorts of actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy,</p>
<p>I no longer contribute to HRC, largely because I felt they were more interested in protecting the Obama Administration than protecting gay and lesbian Americans.</p>
<p>However, when I did contribute, since I knew they were a political lobbying organization, I never treated any donations as tax-deductible.  Perhaps I just don&#8217;t understand what is and isn&#8217;t deductible, but I really think that a donations to a political lobbying group like HRC or Exodus (which has done a great deal of lobbying around various pieces of legislation) should not be tax deductible.  </p>
<p>I would like to see the rules around tax exempt organizations contributing or lobbying for or against propositions tightened, including the priest or whoever on the altar telling the parishoners to vote for or against this or that particular proposition on the ballot.  I&#8217;d like to see these groups lose their tax exempt status for these sorts of actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/30/25846/comment-page-1#comment-77520</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 00:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=25846#comment-77520</guid>
		<description>I know very little about the tax code here and nothing about it in NZ. But in my view, the NZ gov did not strip Exodus of the tax exempt status because they didn&#039;t like their message. They did it because of a technicality. An analogous situation here I suppose would be if Exodus decided to start making a profit from a section of their organization but disguised it to cheat the tax code. It would be a technical situation. I believe the situation in NZ was a technical one, not even a political one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know very little about the tax code here and nothing about it in NZ. But in my view, the NZ gov did not strip Exodus of the tax exempt status because they didn&#8217;t like their message. They did it because of a technicality. An analogous situation here I suppose would be if Exodus decided to start making a profit from a section of their organization but disguised it to cheat the tax code. It would be a technical situation. I believe the situation in NZ was a technical one, not even a political one.</p>
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