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	<title>Comments on: Hey, Geoff Kors, don&#8217;t lie to me and try to use my orientation for your partisan agenda</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: TonyJazz</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78719</link>
		<dc:creator>TonyJazz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78719</guid>
		<description>Tim seems to be splitting hairs in this article, much to our disadvantage.

Meg is seeking the homophobic vote, no matter what her personal views may be.

That makes her scum, in my view.... 

If she were in office today, she would be supporting Prop 8---causing us significant harm.

(At least Arnold managed to do one thing right, after he bought his governorship....)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim seems to be splitting hairs in this article, much to our disadvantage.</p>
<p>Meg is seeking the homophobic vote, no matter what her personal views may be.</p>
<p>That makes her scum, in my view&#8230;. </p>
<p>If she were in office today, she would be supporting Prop 8&#8212;causing us significant harm.</p>
<p>(At least Arnold managed to do one thing right, after he bought his governorship&#8230;.)</p>
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		<title>By: Pender</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78709</link>
		<dc:creator>Pender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78709</guid>
		<description>Timothy:

They are all homophobic, because they all believe that gay people do not deserve the right to marry. That their views are in the mainstream doesn&#039;t matter -- if it did, that would mean that the Nazis weren&#039;t antisemitic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy:</p>
<p>They are all homophobic, because they all believe that gay people do not deserve the right to marry. That their views are in the mainstream doesn&#8217;t matter &#8212; if it did, that would mean that the Nazis weren&#8217;t antisemitic.</p>
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		<title>By: Amicus</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78702</link>
		<dc:creator>Amicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78702</guid>
		<description>I still don&#039;t understand California&#039;s set-up, with an elected AG and an elected Governor, both of whom have standing in court, based on some of the phrases I&#039;ve read, so I have to pass...

But, those thinking that the issue of standing will keep it from appeal could be wrong.  And, pending that appeal, it&#039;s not clear that Whitman couldn&#039;t indeed start *new* litigation - she certainly hasn&#039;t ruled it out, has she?

Anyway, as far as being lied to, one appreciates that.  But, let&#039;s not be too hard on our own.  Why, here&#039;s something in my inbox, distributed by Townhall, for 

&quot;Dear Fellow Sitting Duck:

As Obama&#039;s spending orgy [??!!] sinks America deeper into financial turmoil [!!??], he is about to turn Uncle Sam&#039;s acute funding crisis into YOUR problem.

In fact, THIS WEEK Obama&#039;s Treasury and Labor Departments are holding outrageous, executive branch hearings on nationalization of retirement accounts.

Your nest egg is in their cross-hairs; you know, to &quot;protect you&quot; from losing your own money.

...

That&#039;s why it&#039;s absolutely vital you take a quick moment today to sign the Keep Obama&#039;s Hands Off My Retirement Account petition to Congress.

In my 23+ years of exposing government attacks on assets for discerning Americans, trust me when I tell you that we ALL need to tell Congress in no uncertain terms:

DON&#039;T LET OBAMA GET HIS GRUBBY HANDS INTO MY RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS!!!!!
Here&#039;s what is going on.

The cash-strapped Obama Administration&#039;s unofficial 401(k) nationalization czar is utopian New School for Social Research academic Teresa Ghilarducci -- who was dubbed by U.S. News and World Report as &quot;the most dangerous woman in America&quot; after she appeared before Congress to testify in favor of government seizing 401(k)s and other retirement assets.

...

It is vital you sign our grassroots petition right away! Obama administration officials and their leftist allies in Congress have zeroed in on over $15 trillion in 401(k)s, IRAs, 403(b)s, and other accounts – and only a grassroots bonfire of opposition will ultimately stop them.

Why? Major state pension funds, state governments, and the entire federal entitlement program structure are on the verge of collapse and in need of bailouts due to collapsing tax revenues.

This Massive Theft is Underway -- 
Help Me STOP Them! 

...

Today, I am sounding the alarm because millions of Americans stand to lose TRILLIONS OF THEIR OWN DOLLARS.
I DESPERATELY NEED YOUR HELP TO STOP THEM. Your assets and your financial future are directly on the line!

...

Don&#039;t wait for this freight train to hit you. Make your voice heard now. Sign and submit your petition now, before a new financial crisis gives the Obama administration the cover it needs to ram this outrageous retirement nationalization scheme through!
 
Lee Bellinger, Publisher
Independent Living&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don&#8217;t understand California&#8217;s set-up, with an elected AG and an elected Governor, both of whom have standing in court, based on some of the phrases I&#8217;ve read, so I have to pass&#8230;</p>
<p>But, those thinking that the issue of standing will keep it from appeal could be wrong.  And, pending that appeal, it&#8217;s not clear that Whitman couldn&#8217;t indeed start *new* litigation &#8211; she certainly hasn&#8217;t ruled it out, has she?</p>
<p>Anyway, as far as being lied to, one appreciates that.  But, let&#8217;s not be too hard on our own.  Why, here&#8217;s something in my inbox, distributed by Townhall, for </p>
<p>&#8220;Dear Fellow Sitting Duck:</p>
<p>As Obama&#8217;s spending orgy [??!!] sinks America deeper into financial turmoil [!!??], he is about to turn Uncle Sam&#8217;s acute funding crisis into YOUR problem.</p>
<p>In fact, THIS WEEK Obama&#8217;s Treasury and Labor Departments are holding outrageous, executive branch hearings on nationalization of retirement accounts.</p>
<p>Your nest egg is in their cross-hairs; you know, to &#8220;protect you&#8221; from losing your own money.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s absolutely vital you take a quick moment today to sign the Keep Obama&#8217;s Hands Off My Retirement Account petition to Congress.</p>
<p>In my 23+ years of exposing government attacks on assets for discerning Americans, trust me when I tell you that we ALL need to tell Congress in no uncertain terms:</p>
<p>DON&#8217;T LET OBAMA GET HIS GRUBBY HANDS INTO MY RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS!!!!!<br />
Here&#8217;s what is going on.</p>
<p>The cash-strapped Obama Administration&#8217;s unofficial 401(k) nationalization czar is utopian New School for Social Research academic Teresa Ghilarducci &#8212; who was dubbed by U.S. News and World Report as &#8220;the most dangerous woman in America&#8221; after she appeared before Congress to testify in favor of government seizing 401(k)s and other retirement assets.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>It is vital you sign our grassroots petition right away! Obama administration officials and their leftist allies in Congress have zeroed in on over $15 trillion in 401(k)s, IRAs, 403(b)s, and other accounts – and only a grassroots bonfire of opposition will ultimately stop them.</p>
<p>Why? Major state pension funds, state governments, and the entire federal entitlement program structure are on the verge of collapse and in need of bailouts due to collapsing tax revenues.</p>
<p>This Massive Theft is Underway &#8212;<br />
Help Me STOP Them! </p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Today, I am sounding the alarm because millions of Americans stand to lose TRILLIONS OF THEIR OWN DOLLARS.<br />
I DESPERATELY NEED YOUR HELP TO STOP THEM. Your assets and your financial future are directly on the line!</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t wait for this freight train to hit you. Make your voice heard now. Sign and submit your petition now, before a new financial crisis gives the Obama administration the cover it needs to ram this outrageous retirement nationalization scheme through!</p>
<p>Lee Bellinger, Publisher<br />
Independent Living&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Donnchadh</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78693</link>
		<dc:creator>Donnchadh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 18:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78693</guid>
		<description>&quot;Homophobia&quot; is an deeply-ingrained fear of homosexuality (though its etymology is &quot;fear of the same&quot;), so it is purely emotional. It is possible to be homophobic yet support gay equality in more rational, detached moments.
An opinion, however irrational, is not a phobia any more than it is a fetish or a hallucination. Making assumptions about gay people (and more specifically their behaviour) is not homophobia, it is prejudice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Homophobia&#8221; is an deeply-ingrained fear of homosexuality (though its etymology is &#8220;fear of the same&#8221;), so it is purely emotional. It is possible to be homophobic yet support gay equality in more rational, detached moments.<br />
An opinion, however irrational, is not a phobia any more than it is a fetish or a hallucination. Making assumptions about gay people (and more specifically their behaviour) is not homophobia, it is prejudice.</p>
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		<title>By: If it walks like one</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78690</link>
		<dc:creator>If it walks like one</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78690</guid>
		<description>Please - Whitman, Obama (&quot;God is in the mix&quot;), Biden, H. Clinton (quite the hypocrite about marriage), and Reid ARE homophobes.

You don&#039;t think gay people should be allowed to get married?  You&#039;re a homophobe.  Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please &#8211; Whitman, Obama (&#8220;God is in the mix&#8221;), Biden, H. Clinton (quite the hypocrite about marriage), and Reid ARE homophobes.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t think gay people should be allowed to get married?  You&#8217;re a homophobe.  Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter J</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78685</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78685</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your position and eloquence on this matter.  I could not agree more in either mind or emotion with regards to the various LGBT organizations who will say anything to raise funds.

Question first: can someone please tell me what Meg Whiteman&#039;s record was on gay/lesbian issues during her tenure at EBay?  Is there behavior there that would support or refute the homophobia issue? 

In either case, her homophobia or lack thereof is not what Tim&#039;s article was about for me.  It was about the professional organizations in the &quot;LGBT business&quot; who seem to be taking all measures necessary to raise funds to keep their organizations and salaries intact.

I imagine that in the day following the successful conclusion of the marriage equality issue we will all get mailings from the HRC, from EQCA, and a number of other organizations taking credit for the victory and asking for money to tackle other LGBT issues.  

The reality is that none of these organizations have been effective in the legal push for equality.  We will owe a great deal of gratitude to the young, open-minded generation of Glee-loving, voting citizens for whom this issue is just no big deal, for our victory.

Keep up the provocative commentaries Tim, I enjoy and am often challenged by your points of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your position and eloquence on this matter.  I could not agree more in either mind or emotion with regards to the various LGBT organizations who will say anything to raise funds.</p>
<p>Question first: can someone please tell me what Meg Whiteman&#8217;s record was on gay/lesbian issues during her tenure at EBay?  Is there behavior there that would support or refute the homophobia issue? </p>
<p>In either case, her homophobia or lack thereof is not what Tim&#8217;s article was about for me.  It was about the professional organizations in the &#8220;LGBT business&#8221; who seem to be taking all measures necessary to raise funds to keep their organizations and salaries intact.</p>
<p>I imagine that in the day following the successful conclusion of the marriage equality issue we will all get mailings from the HRC, from EQCA, and a number of other organizations taking credit for the victory and asking for money to tackle other LGBT issues.  </p>
<p>The reality is that none of these organizations have been effective in the legal push for equality.  We will owe a great deal of gratitude to the young, open-minded generation of Glee-loving, voting citizens for whom this issue is just no big deal, for our victory.</p>
<p>Keep up the provocative commentaries Tim, I enjoy and am often challenged by your points of view.</p>
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		<title>By: customartist</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78669</link>
		<dc:creator>customartist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78669</guid>
		<description>There are two valid points here:

First, that lies serve to discredit and undermine integrity, 

and the other side:

Which says that war is war, that you cannot fight fire with toothpicks, that when your enemy uses lies, and uses any other means against you, do you then return it with civility?  or kindness??  

I say no.  

Yes, one must balance all of this, and Kors must be very careful in his rhetoric, but as imperfect as his organization may be, I thank him for his efforts which are intended to help us all.

Whether Whitman actually said this or not is moot in my estimation. She WOULD say it, she DOES think it, and she WILL legislate against Gay Equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two valid points here:</p>
<p>First, that lies serve to discredit and undermine integrity, </p>
<p>and the other side:</p>
<p>Which says that war is war, that you cannot fight fire with toothpicks, that when your enemy uses lies, and uses any other means against you, do you then return it with civility?  or kindness??  </p>
<p>I say no.  </p>
<p>Yes, one must balance all of this, and Kors must be very careful in his rhetoric, but as imperfect as his organization may be, I thank him for his efforts which are intended to help us all.</p>
<p>Whether Whitman actually said this or not is moot in my estimation. She WOULD say it, she DOES think it, and she WILL legislate against Gay Equality.</p>
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		<title>By: Other Fred in the UK</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78656</link>
		<dc:creator>Other Fred in the UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 08:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78656</guid>
		<description>Whilst it might be technically correct to call anyone who does not support full, absolute and complete lesbian and gay equality homophobic or bigoted, doing so creates a number of problems. It drains those words of any impact, leaves us without words to refer to those who oppose and lesbian and gay rights and, finally, insults and alienates those politicians and voters who agree with us on most issues and might be persuaded on full equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whilst it might be technically correct to call anyone who does not support full, absolute and complete lesbian and gay equality homophobic or bigoted, doing so creates a number of problems. It drains those words of any impact, leaves us without words to refer to those who oppose and lesbian and gay rights and, finally, insults and alienates those politicians and voters who agree with us on most issues and might be persuaded on full equality.</p>
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		<title>By: truthteller</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78649</link>
		<dc:creator>truthteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 05:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78649</guid>
		<description>I meant to write Equality California, not the Courage Campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to write Equality California, not the Courage Campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: truthteller</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/16/26192/comment-page-1#comment-78647</link>
		<dc:creator>truthteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 05:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26192#comment-78647</guid>
		<description>She is clearly saying if she were governor she would appeal the decision. Prop 8 is now part of the constitution and she is in fact saying she would defend the constitution and fight to defend prop 8. How much more clear can this be?

“I think the governor of California and the attorney general today  have to defend the Constitution and have to enable the judicial process to go along … and an appeal to go through,” Whitman said. “So if I was governor, I would give that ruling standing to be able to appeal to the circuit court.” 

The Liberals have been getting their ass kicked at every election by the right wingers with lies, stretching the truth and dirty tricks because the Democrats have not fought back with the same weapons. 

The Courage campaign is finally fighting back with the same tactics and whether you like it or not, it is the reality of politics today. You either beat them at their game and with the same tactics or take the high road and get your ass kicked and keep GLBT as subhuman under the law. 

Politics is a dirty game and playing nice will get you second class citizenship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She is clearly saying if she were governor she would appeal the decision. Prop 8 is now part of the constitution and she is in fact saying she would defend the constitution and fight to defend prop 8. How much more clear can this be?</p>
<p>“I think the governor of California and the attorney general today  have to defend the Constitution and have to enable the judicial process to go along … and an appeal to go through,” Whitman said. “So if I was governor, I would give that ruling standing to be able to appeal to the circuit court.” </p>
<p>The Liberals have been getting their ass kicked at every election by the right wingers with lies, stretching the truth and dirty tricks because the Democrats have not fought back with the same weapons. </p>
<p>The Courage campaign is finally fighting back with the same tactics and whether you like it or not, it is the reality of politics today. You either beat them at their game and with the same tactics or take the high road and get your ass kicked and keep GLBT as subhuman under the law. </p>
<p>Politics is a dirty game and playing nice will get you second class citizenship.</p>
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