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	<title>Comments on: The Tea Party Doesn&#8217;t Care About Social Issues, Ctd.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-2#comment-78910</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 20:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78910</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’d be good if people would take their cues from him instead of the far right though.&quot;

That would require leadership and intelligence, which seems to be further and further in short supply in this country.

I can think of a certain president who seems to take a few of his positions from the right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’d be good if people would take their cues from him instead of the far right though.&#8221;</p>
<p>That would require leadership and intelligence, which seems to be further and further in short supply in this country.</p>
<p>I can think of a certain president who seems to take a few of his positions from the right.</p>
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		<title>By: BlackDog</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-2#comment-78909</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 20:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78909</guid>
		<description>Jim &amp; Tim
The sort of conservatives of whom you speak...all too rare (or maybe just invisible these days?) and I think most of the ones like that (that I know at least) are voting for democrats these days anyway. Most of the ones I know like that aren&#039;t especially religious and nearly everybody in my life that&#039;s an old school conservative is related to me. Whatever else they&#039;re about, the tea party crowd and the values voters don&#039;t seem all that interested in &#039;conserving&#039; anything.

Like I said, I used to be a conservative, but this upwelling of political and religious fanaticism we&#039;ve seen in the last couple years...that worries me. You can&#039;t reason with the people under its influence most of the time. I remember seeing recently on another blog something to the effect of &quot;we live in a post-fact society.&quot; 

It&#039;s gotten to the point where people can just make stuff up and it&#039;s accepted. There are times when decisions have to be made based on cold hard facts.  

I read quite a bit about Ted Olson, gotta say I have tremendous respect for that guy. I think it&#039;s funny that since the prop 8 loss the Republicans are mostly giving up on the &quot;gay issue.&quot;

It&#039;d be good if people would take their cues from him instead of the far right though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim &amp; Tim<br />
The sort of conservatives of whom you speak&#8230;all too rare (or maybe just invisible these days?) and I think most of the ones like that (that I know at least) are voting for democrats these days anyway. Most of the ones I know like that aren&#8217;t especially religious and nearly everybody in my life that&#8217;s an old school conservative is related to me. Whatever else they&#8217;re about, the tea party crowd and the values voters don&#8217;t seem all that interested in &#8216;conserving&#8217; anything.</p>
<p>Like I said, I used to be a conservative, but this upwelling of political and religious fanaticism we&#8217;ve seen in the last couple years&#8230;that worries me. You can&#8217;t reason with the people under its influence most of the time. I remember seeing recently on another blog something to the effect of &#8220;we live in a post-fact society.&#8221; </p>
<p>It&#8217;s gotten to the point where people can just make stuff up and it&#8217;s accepted. There are times when decisions have to be made based on cold hard facts.  </p>
<p>I read quite a bit about Ted Olson, gotta say I have tremendous respect for that guy. I think it&#8217;s funny that since the prop 8 loss the Republicans are mostly giving up on the &#8220;gay issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;d be good if people would take their cues from him instead of the far right though.</p>
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		<title>By: TJMcFisty</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-2#comment-78908</link>
		<dc:creator>TJMcFisty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 19:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78908</guid>
		<description>&quot;Upset for not being the darling, favorite, cherished, and powerful majority anymore.

Call the waaaambulance.&quot;

AKA, Adult Onset Cryabetes or Hypocryacemia.

I honestly cannot believe that in this day and age, we&#039;re seriously listening to people who are called to action on federal issues, in the morning nonetheless, by God. It&#039;s one thing to have &quot;Your Personal Relationship&quot; with the Creator(s, etc), but this really is going too far.

Can&#039;t the country collectively furrow our brow at these people and be dismissive again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Upset for not being the darling, favorite, cherished, and powerful majority anymore.</p>
<p>Call the waaaambulance.&#8221;</p>
<p>AKA, Adult Onset Cryabetes or Hypocryacemia.</p>
<p>I honestly cannot believe that in this day and age, we&#8217;re seriously listening to people who are called to action on federal issues, in the morning nonetheless, by God. It&#8217;s one thing to have &#8220;Your Personal Relationship&#8221; with the Creator(s, etc), but this really is going too far.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t the country collectively furrow our brow at these people and be dismissive again?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-2#comment-78903</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78903</guid>
		<description>To back up what Timothy said, I think the most prominent conservative who understand what conservatism means with regard to marriage equality is none other than Ted Olson, the Bush/Cheney lawyer who so skillfully sued the state of California over Prop 8 and won.

Another one I can think of off the top of my head is David Brooks, going all the way back &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/opinion/the-power-of-marriage.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;to 2003&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To back up what Timothy said, I think the most prominent conservative who understand what conservatism means with regard to marriage equality is none other than Ted Olson, the Bush/Cheney lawyer who so skillfully sued the state of California over Prop 8 and won.</p>
<p>Another one I can think of off the top of my head is David Brooks, going all the way back <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/opinion/the-power-of-marriage.html" rel="nofollow">to 2003</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-2#comment-78901</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 17:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78901</guid>
		<description>Blackdog

&lt;blockquote&gt;“It’s fine to believe whatever you want. In fact there are people that say that GOD mandates to treat gay people equally.”

You know what I’ve noticed about those people, Pepa? Ain’t a single one of ‘em that I’ve ever met that’s conservative.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have.  More than a few.  And it tears them up that their fellow conservatives don&#039;t live up to their own calling.

These are the folk who believe that small government also means not dictating whom you can marry.  They believe that &quot;love your neighbor&quot; doesn&#039;t come with an asterisk. 

Sadly, they are the ones that the true-blue-holier-than-thou-knee-jerk conservatives call &quot;squishes&quot; and RINOs and are under constant attack from the purity crowd.

And for a few decades it has been the &quot;true blue conservatives&quot; who have been most visible and most vocal.  But that doesn&#039;t mean that the heart and soul of everyday conservatives have been entirely poisoned by hate and bigotry.

Honestly, decent folk make up the bulk of Christians and probably the majority of self-described &quot;conservatives.&quot;  There really are very few die-hard &quot;values voters&quot; out there.

We just haven&#039;t done a very good job and explaining exactly what we want.  Much of the divide between conservatives and the gay community is the result of mistrust and miscommunication.

Virtually every single one of our self-appointed leaders are from the more liberal end of our community and unfortunately don&#039;t speak &quot;conservative.&quot;  So they have historically packaged our quests in language that appeals to liberals but not so much to conservatives. (I&#039;ve cringed when someone in a lobby group started in trying to convince a Republican to support on of our bills and I heard them say things that were almost certain to drive his vote the other way.)

I think (and hope) that this is changing; I&#039;ve seen some positive steps in the way we tell our stories.  And I&#039;ve seen reaction to those stories from within the conservative community.

I really do believe that for a majority of so-called conservatives, what we really need to do is tap into the fact that they already agree with &quot;how dare big government tell me who I can marry&quot; and &quot;everybody gets an equal shot and no one gets special rights&quot; and once they come to see our quest for equality in those terms, they will see - as Ted Olson said - that equality issues do &quot;promote the values conservatives prize.&quot;

We&#039;ll never win over those who start from &quot;God told me what you should do&quot;.  But I think we can win the rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blackdog</p>
<blockquote><p>“It’s fine to believe whatever you want. In fact there are people that say that GOD mandates to treat gay people equally.”</p>
<p>You know what I’ve noticed about those people, Pepa? Ain’t a single one of ‘em that I’ve ever met that’s conservative.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have.  More than a few.  And it tears them up that their fellow conservatives don&#8217;t live up to their own calling.</p>
<p>These are the folk who believe that small government also means not dictating whom you can marry.  They believe that &#8220;love your neighbor&#8221; doesn&#8217;t come with an asterisk. </p>
<p>Sadly, they are the ones that the true-blue-holier-than-thou-knee-jerk conservatives call &#8220;squishes&#8221; and RINOs and are under constant attack from the purity crowd.</p>
<p>And for a few decades it has been the &#8220;true blue conservatives&#8221; who have been most visible and most vocal.  But that doesn&#8217;t mean that the heart and soul of everyday conservatives have been entirely poisoned by hate and bigotry.</p>
<p>Honestly, decent folk make up the bulk of Christians and probably the majority of self-described &#8220;conservatives.&#8221;  There really are very few die-hard &#8220;values voters&#8221; out there.</p>
<p>We just haven&#8217;t done a very good job and explaining exactly what we want.  Much of the divide between conservatives and the gay community is the result of mistrust and miscommunication.</p>
<p>Virtually every single one of our self-appointed leaders are from the more liberal end of our community and unfortunately don&#8217;t speak &#8220;conservative.&#8221;  So they have historically packaged our quests in language that appeals to liberals but not so much to conservatives. (I&#8217;ve cringed when someone in a lobby group started in trying to convince a Republican to support on of our bills and I heard them say things that were almost certain to drive his vote the other way.)</p>
<p>I think (and hope) that this is changing; I&#8217;ve seen some positive steps in the way we tell our stories.  And I&#8217;ve seen reaction to those stories from within the conservative community.</p>
<p>I really do believe that for a majority of so-called conservatives, what we really need to do is tap into the fact that they already agree with &#8220;how dare big government tell me who I can marry&#8221; and &#8220;everybody gets an equal shot and no one gets special rights&#8221; and once they come to see our quest for equality in those terms, they will see &#8211; as Ted Olson said &#8211; that equality issues do &#8220;promote the values conservatives prize.&#8221;</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll never win over those who start from &#8220;God told me what you should do&#8221;.  But I think we can win the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: BlackDog</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-2#comment-78891</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78891</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard she&#039;s a professional cantidate, and basically lives off of campaign contributions and whatnot. The one Delaware-native blogger said she&#039;s accused Castle campaign staffers of hiding in the bushes in front of her house...but there ARE no bushes in front of her house.

Where DO the tea baggers keep finding all these crazy cantidates?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard she&#8217;s a professional cantidate, and basically lives off of campaign contributions and whatnot. The one Delaware-native blogger said she&#8217;s accused Castle campaign staffers of hiding in the bushes in front of her house&#8230;but there ARE no bushes in front of her house.</p>
<p>Where DO the tea baggers keep finding all these crazy cantidates?</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-2#comment-78890</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78890</guid>
		<description>a friend of mine has the feeling she&#039;s a fraud, just riding the anti-gay anti-sex bandwagon for the publicity and the career (and money).

Check her wiki page, she has a history of coming through on things - like tuition and mortgage payments.

She appeared on &quot;Politically Incorrect&quot; more than 20 times playing up that stance, and now she&#039;s modeled herself after Palin (look at her hair and outfits). 

I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if that were the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a friend of mine has the feeling she&#8217;s a fraud, just riding the anti-gay anti-sex bandwagon for the publicity and the career (and money).</p>
<p>Check her wiki page, she has a history of coming through on things &#8211; like tuition and mortgage payments.</p>
<p>She appeared on &#8220;Politically Incorrect&#8221; more than 20 times playing up that stance, and now she&#8217;s modeled herself after Palin (look at her hair and outfits). </p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if that were the case.</p>
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		<title>By: BlackDog</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-1#comment-78888</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78888</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s funny that Christine O&#039; Donnell ran that anti-Masturbation campaign in the 90&#039;s but she lives with her boyfriend (This from the same blogger who said Mike Castle doesn&#039;t lose elections, btw) and the ALSO claimed to have once practiced witchcraft.

Not exactly the ideal &quot;social issues&quot; cantidate but I hear from a guy I know down south that the local tea baggers love her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s funny that Christine O&#8217; Donnell ran that anti-Masturbation campaign in the 90&#8242;s but she lives with her boyfriend (This from the same blogger who said Mike Castle doesn&#8217;t lose elections, btw) and the ALSO claimed to have once practiced witchcraft.</p>
<p>Not exactly the ideal &#8220;social issues&#8221; cantidate but I hear from a guy I know down south that the local tea baggers love her.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-1#comment-78872</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78872</guid>
		<description>The Tea Party says they aren&#039;t concerned with social issues. Christine O&#039;Donnell, among others, is very much about social issues. Don&#039;t be fooled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Tea Party says they aren&#8217;t concerned with social issues. Christine O&#8217;Donnell, among others, is very much about social issues. Don&#8217;t be fooled.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurice Lacunza</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/18/26355/comment-page-1#comment-78861</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurice Lacunza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=26355#comment-78861</guid>
		<description>To Pepe: A house divided will not stand. There is never complete agreement in any group, so you and the others who would argue back are acting like 10th graders. 

As my grandma would say, shape up and behave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Pepe: A house divided will not stand. There is never complete agreement in any group, so you and the others who would argue back are acting like 10th graders. </p>
<p>As my grandma would say, shape up and behave.</p>
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