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	<title>Comments on: Suicide, Responsibility, and the Teenaged Brain</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81908</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81908</guid>
		<description>The thing I do personally to counter-act all the hate is to serve at the gay community center, with Whitman-Walker Clinic, and give generously to SMYAL to help those kids who have been thrown out and thrown away by their parents.  Voting hasn&#039;t worked, for me or for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing I do personally to counter-act all the hate is to serve at the gay community center, with Whitman-Walker Clinic, and give generously to SMYAL to help those kids who have been thrown out and thrown away by their parents.  Voting hasn&#8217;t worked, for me or for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Soren456</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81764</link>
		<dc:creator>Soren456</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81764</guid>
		<description>Even Falwell had the integrity to back off his rhetoric when Matthew Shepard Was beaten and left to die.

For at time, at least, he could make the right connections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even Falwell had the integrity to back off his rhetoric when Matthew Shepard Was beaten and left to die.</p>
<p>For at time, at least, he could make the right connections.</p>
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		<title>By: MJC</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81756</link>
		<dc:creator>MJC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81756</guid>
		<description>Thanks for a beautifully reasoned (and solidly scientific) post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a beautifully reasoned (and solidly scientific) post.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81743</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81743</guid>
		<description>Growing up gay and Mormon was difficult enough, but at the age of 21, after returning from my mission, I had an uncle in Utah who was beaten and left for dead outside a gay establishment as he was leaving. My 140 lb uncle was left naked with punctured lungs and a crushed eye socket in a gravel pit by two football players. He survived due to hypothermia setting in and I still remember my family discussing the incident and saying, &quot;well he shouldn&#039;t have been there&quot;. I had known I was gay since Jr. High at least, and knew I could not come out to a family who believed gay people deserved this because of who they are. While I did not commit suicide, I almost did while attending BYU and despairing that I would never be accepted or &quot;normal&quot;. That incident left a huge impression and propelled me deeper into the closet for many years...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Growing up gay and Mormon was difficult enough, but at the age of 21, after returning from my mission, I had an uncle in Utah who was beaten and left for dead outside a gay establishment as he was leaving. My 140 lb uncle was left naked with punctured lungs and a crushed eye socket in a gravel pit by two football players. He survived due to hypothermia setting in and I still remember my family discussing the incident and saying, &#8220;well he shouldn&#8217;t have been there&#8221;. I had known I was gay since Jr. High at least, and knew I could not come out to a family who believed gay people deserved this because of who they are. While I did not commit suicide, I almost did while attending BYU and despairing that I would never be accepted or &#8220;normal&#8221;. That incident left a huge impression and propelled me deeper into the closet for many years&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81734</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81734</guid>
		<description>Once again, I&#039;m reminded how much I want to punch anyone who thinks suicide is some kind of &quot;cop out.&quot; I&#039;ve never understood the logic behind that. Copping out of WHAT? I suppose the victims of bullying owe it to someone (whom?) to just suck it up and continue being a punching bag?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, I&#8217;m reminded how much I want to punch anyone who thinks suicide is some kind of &#8220;cop out.&#8221; I&#8217;ve never understood the logic behind that. Copping out of WHAT? I suppose the victims of bullying owe it to someone (whom?) to just suck it up and continue being a punching bag?</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81730</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81730</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not allow the FB comments of Clint McCance and how he reacted to Spirit Day to fade from view.
More importantly, let&#039;s remember his particularly cruel remarks about how he&#039;d treat his own child if they were gay.

   That&#039;s the money shot. And EXACTLY why the gay community and their supporters can point to the significance of why gay children are distinctly in need of more help and support than other children and the issues they are bullied for.

    Clint McCance can be representative of thousands of fathers all over. Who&#039;d actively assault and bully their own gay children.
Or illegally abandon them to the streets with impunity. Even if that child is under age.
The torment doesn&#039;t begin and end at school among one&#039;s peers.
But also from the adults one is extremely dependent on for mental and physical well being.

  I can imagine Tyler Clementi having a father and mother similar to Clint McCance.
  And I can think with assurance that such a thing contributed to Tyler&#039;s suicide.
  His parents have not DEFENDED him since his death.
Not a word.
Whereas the more supportive parents HAVE done so.
 Something that&#039;s very telling unto itself.

    We know of children who are barely toddlers being beaten and murdered by their fathers for not presenting as butch enough for those fathers.
Which is anti gay torture at it&#039;s most hideous extreme.

   But such cruel remarks and thoughtlessness and loss of parental love that McCance espouses, could wear on the teen brain and do damage.

    This is why I bring up the Clark study, and the damage to black children.
Even as far back as the early 50&#039;s, the effects of bigotry, isolation and constant messaging as an inferior and threatening person presented in children as young as three years old.

     There is no reason to think that similar attacks on gay children, wouldn&#039;t have similar outcomes as they did on black children living under Jim Crow.
Or Jewish children in the Soviet Union.

    I&#039;m hating the idea of gay people as lab rats all over again, but perhaps gay adolescents might need this.
   Because just as the Clark research was instrumental in overturning school segregation.
Perhaps something as groundbreaking regarding education could happen as well for gay kids...and their families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not allow the FB comments of Clint McCance and how he reacted to Spirit Day to fade from view.<br />
More importantly, let&#8217;s remember his particularly cruel remarks about how he&#8217;d treat his own child if they were gay.</p>
<p>   That&#8217;s the money shot. And EXACTLY why the gay community and their supporters can point to the significance of why gay children are distinctly in need of more help and support than other children and the issues they are bullied for.</p>
<p>    Clint McCance can be representative of thousands of fathers all over. Who&#8217;d actively assault and bully their own gay children.<br />
Or illegally abandon them to the streets with impunity. Even if that child is under age.<br />
The torment doesn&#8217;t begin and end at school among one&#8217;s peers.<br />
But also from the adults one is extremely dependent on for mental and physical well being.</p>
<p>  I can imagine Tyler Clementi having a father and mother similar to Clint McCance.<br />
  And I can think with assurance that such a thing contributed to Tyler&#8217;s suicide.<br />
  His parents have not DEFENDED him since his death.<br />
Not a word.<br />
Whereas the more supportive parents HAVE done so.<br />
 Something that&#8217;s very telling unto itself.</p>
<p>    We know of children who are barely toddlers being beaten and murdered by their fathers for not presenting as butch enough for those fathers.<br />
Which is anti gay torture at it&#8217;s most hideous extreme.</p>
<p>   But such cruel remarks and thoughtlessness and loss of parental love that McCance espouses, could wear on the teen brain and do damage.</p>
<p>    This is why I bring up the Clark study, and the damage to black children.<br />
Even as far back as the early 50&#8242;s, the effects of bigotry, isolation and constant messaging as an inferior and threatening person presented in children as young as three years old.</p>
<p>     There is no reason to think that similar attacks on gay children, wouldn&#8217;t have similar outcomes as they did on black children living under Jim Crow.<br />
Or Jewish children in the Soviet Union.</p>
<p>    I&#8217;m hating the idea of gay people as lab rats all over again, but perhaps gay adolescents might need this.<br />
   Because just as the Clark research was instrumental in overturning school segregation.<br />
Perhaps something as groundbreaking regarding education could happen as well for gay kids&#8230;and their families.</p>
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		<title>By: Victor</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81707</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81707</guid>
		<description>Compare:


&quot;The only people responsible for the suicides are the people that comitted them. . . .Each person is responsible 4 their own actions.&quot; - NOM supporter


&quot;It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.&quot; -Romans 14:21

The conclusion:  don&#039;t eat meat or drink wine, because that can cause others to fall.  But breaking their arms, throwing them down a flight of stairs, punching and kicking them and urging them to kill themselves is OK, because that won&#039;t have any effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compare:</p>
<p>&#8220;The only people responsible for the suicides are the people that comitted them. . . .Each person is responsible 4 their own actions.&#8221; &#8211; NOM supporter</p>
<p>&#8220;It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.&#8221; -Romans 14:21</p>
<p>The conclusion:  don&#8217;t eat meat or drink wine, because that can cause others to fall.  But breaking their arms, throwing them down a flight of stairs, punching and kicking them and urging them to kill themselves is OK, because that won&#8217;t have any effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindoro Almaviva</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81697</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindoro Almaviva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 03:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81697</guid>
		<description>Preach it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preach it!</p>
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		<title>By: Hayden</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/10/28/27611/comment-page-1#comment-81692</link>
		<dc:creator>Hayden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=27611#comment-81692</guid>
		<description>Why do you think they draft and recruit 18-20 year old boys for the military?  At one time men couldn&#039;t drink, vote or marry at 18, due to their not being mature enough, but could be drafted and sent to combat, no problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you think they draft and recruit 18-20 year old boys for the military?  At one time men couldn&#8217;t drink, vote or marry at 18, due to their not being mature enough, but could be drafted and sent to combat, no problem.</p>
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