Comments on: This Is How You Handle A Wingnut

By: justsearching

justsearching — Sat, 25 Dec 2010 19:49:33 +0000

@jason- I was referring to shower situations. It just seems that the “checking out” you guys are referring to in the showers seems far more, um, thorough then the average casual checking someone out on the street. I’ll take a look at guys walking down the street, sure, but I’d make it a point to try not to do so in public showers.

By: Regan DuCasse

Regan DuCasse — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:57:31 +0000

oops, grammatical error, I meant more than STRAIGHT men do.

By: Regan DuCasse

Regan DuCasse — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:56:58 +0000

I might add, gay men check me out almost more intensely then men do. But it’s NEVER in as such a way that feels threatening or wolfish.
And lesbians, don’t feel that way either because being women, they are a similar physical match.
When I worked at Universal Studios, the performer’s locker/dressing room and showers were a busy place. We had several lesbians on the staff that were in the room all the time because they were our friends, we loved them and they were very popular women.
Two of them were a couple. There was no discomfort or feelings of insecurity from the rest of us.

And it doesn’t seem to occur to the anti gay in ANY of these conversations that gay men and women have more to fear from straight people than the other way around.
But, we all know how cynical that crowd can be and how they use it.
The slightest misunderstanding or unwarranted accusation from an insecure straight person could have more devastating effects in a professional setting with no non discrimination protections in place.

I know the gravity of things like that.
But since I’m a person whose had exactly the intimate environment with lesbians that these anti gay people fear, some of us straight folks know good and well that there is no there there for them to behave this way.

By: Regan DuCasse

Regan DuCasse — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:49:30 +0000

Oh yeah, Em..I’ve ALWAYS worn shower sandals in the gym facilities. And you’re right. Women check out other women because we’re made much more acutely aware of our image and the esteem that goes with it in our culture.

Of course, it’s not sexual objectification in the same way it is from men, it’s competitive assessment for the most part.
Which is true also of men. That showers are at the fore of this conversation and objection for the anti gay, is like an extension of insecurity trying to disguise itself as a rational defense.

We are of course, at our most vulnerable and insecure when we’re naked. Even in front of lovers and spouses.
It’s still VERY laugh worthy, what the subtext of the fuss from the anti gay really is all about.

By: Jason D

Jason D — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 16:48:52 +0000

justsearching,

how about just the real life situation?

You do know that women and gay men check you out currently, right? Having never seen you, I can’t tell you how many or how often, but it has happened. Even if you never catch them. Even if they never approach you, someone has checked you out. Does this make you uncomfortable? Why?

Do you never check men out?

By: justsearching

justsearching — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 15:51:04 +0000

“I suppose any woman who doesn’t want men to look at her naked body is also not secure in her sexuality.” I agree with the sentiment behind that statement. If I were a straight guy, I think I would be uncomfortable with the idea of knowing that gay guys were “checking me out” or, to use Ryan’s phrase, “sexualizing” me.

By: Jason D

Jason D — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 01:43:32 +0000

“Well, that’s their own problem then. If they like to show off (or don’t care), then let them. But a 19-year old Marine joins the military to serve his country, not to be “checked out” by Ryan. And he’s not a bigot or a hater for that. Hell, I don’t want to be “checked out” by him. If you can’t be a professional, then you have no place in the military, and you should be drummed out.”

If Ryan is discreet and therefore undetectable, how is this (a) harmful and or (b) unprofessional?

Please explain how looking at someone is harming them. I’m still not getting the point of that.

Everyone “checks out” everyone all the time, clothes or no —-it’s just human nature.

By: Emily K

Emily K — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:19:16 +0000

Not to downplay anyone else’s shower concerns, but I think with women (speaking AS a woman) the biggest reason they’d discretely look at other girls – as well as the biggest cause for insecurity – is to compare body notes. As in, “I wish I had her legs.” “I think she lost weight! I’m jealous.” “I must look like a freak, everyone else here has such normal body types/proportions.” or even, if you’re lucky, “Hey, I’m not so different. I have nothing to be afraid of.”

Maybe men have similar types of issues in the shower too.

Speaking of foot fungus, Regan, the most memorable shower conversation I had in the communal showers was when a member of the Crossmen colorguard (I was in the hornline) chastized me for not wearing sandals. She gave me a sobering account of her terrible case of foot fungus that was so painful she couldn’t operate her car pedals. It got so bad she needed surgery. I wore sandals from then on!

By: L. Junius Brutus

L. Junius Brutus — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 22:25:50 +0000

“There are stalls in my shower area, but that doesn’t mean everyone closes the door, or keeps themselves covered.”

Well, that’s their own problem then. If they like to show off (or don’t care), then let them. But a 19-year old Marine joins the military to serve his country, not to be “checked out” by Ryan. And he’s not a bigot or a hater for that. Hell, I don’t want to be “checked out” by him. If you can’t be a professional, then you have no place in the military, and you should be drummed out.

It’s a shame that only bigots are making a fuss about this issue, because it’s a real issue. A recent New York Times article showed that even combat troops who are not bigoted at all, and who support DADT-repeal have this concern.

By: Ben in Oakland

Ben in Oakland — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 18:54:52 +0000

Jason– thanks for fleshing out what i had to say.