I think you’ll be pretty hard pressed to find any atheist who doesn’t grap that marriage was neither created by nor is owned by religion.

They’re usually atheists or non-conformists of some variety that don’t quite grasp that “marriage” was neither created by, nor is it owned by religion. They can get married by Elvis at a Casino and it’s just as legal as any other marriage out there.
They also don’t seem to understand the trajectory. Civil Unions now will be transformed to Full Marriage later, either by legislative changes or judicial decisions. CU/DP are a temporary solution. They’re duct tape.
So just get your civil marriage and be happy you’re not a gay couple who has to fight just to get half a loaf of bread. You’ve got an entire breadbasket on your table, don’t be coming over here getting jealous of our day-old, half-eaten crusts of bread.

immediate and total equality is of course the ideal, but I’m content with incrementalism if it’s the only way. The idea that we become less and less the “other” will bring peple round, (I hope)

As we’re seen to be people just the same ultimately as everyone else people’s inate civility will kick in. As a species co-operation is a survival feature ingrained in our instincts and genes: few want conflict.

To all a Merry Christmas, and to all a good time

I’m glad for every advance. Sure, everything short of marriage equality is insufficient. But every real gain is worth something in the lives of people.

blessings on this Yuletide day.

The financial and legal arguments are the only relevent ones for me and my partner.

We’ve been together some 36 years this month, BUT only were able to get a civil partnershiip in the UK 5 years ago, so all the romantic guff of first-in-loves had eroded away leaving a foundation of love and respect.

Everything we’ve got is jointly paid for and owned, but the things we had to do to keep grasping relatives from having any claims were not straightforward.

In closing, I will not be so impudent as to say count your blessings, you probably do, but I will say that it will get better, the world is turning more our way daily.

I was watching a program about how loggers cut down the big redwoods in California, first they cut a section so that they could stand on a split of wood so they could get high enough to get past the swell and then they would start whacking at the tree from two sides in order to knock it down. (not counting the guys that had to climb to the top to knock off that section)

Lack of marriage equality is our Redwood and likewise we will need to cut it down in sections. Eventually it will come down.

Personally, I’m of the opinion that civil unions are ‘separate but equal’ and as long as DOMA is on the books it’s more like ‘partial rights’ instead of ‘equal rights’ but civil unions make a difference today, which is the important part, so more power to you Senator Steadman, but I’m also a purist, so go go Carllon and Martinez.

(heh, how’s that for bipartisanship?)

“Are you sick of the financial argument at this point? ”

No, but it’s not an emphatic “no”; more of an everyday annoyed “no”. I feel nickeled and dimed to death even while being legally married in California. There are *two* diabled people in my house – my husband at age 87 and me who has been deaf for 30 years. We lived solely upon my husband’s income. He’s old enough to get medicare but I’m not and I have NO health insurance. I would matter a GREAT deal if he could declare me as a dependent on our federal taxes. It would be a HUGE (for us) income bump. We’re done to a doubllewide trailer and a car and ZERO social life including dining out. Our income is FIXED. Every little thing helps, Daniel. Here it is Christmas eve, I have $172.00 in the bank and we simply didn’t do any Christmas shopping. I have (basic) cable internet access as the ONE accomodation to my deafness and it would be the first to go before I’d stop phone service that my spouse can use (but I can’t)

Please.

Don’t start that meme that you’re tired of the financial argument.