what I suspect they actually tell you is that all sins are equal, those as heinous as murder or as benign as gossip. It is you who chooses to link homosexuality and murder rather than homosexuality and gossip, not the Church.

(this is not some endorsement of Catholic theology, but rather a desire that we not speak foolishly and illustrate our ignorance)

Oh, me-oooww!

No doubt. And let hem prove that. Any jack@ss can claim anything, that doesn’t make a situation a “he said, she said” – not as long as we have logical faculties left. Do you actually think that Pat Robertson could back up his claim, or do you think that it’s the usual garbage we’re used to?

“Oh, they would say that 97% of people are as bad as murderes. We all have original sin after all. I have no trouble imagining them saying that.”

Then you should not be offended. And no doubt, the other 3% has sinned in some way, and is therefore as bad as a murderer.

Well wouldn’t Pat Robertson claim that he is the one who is being true to the essence of the religion, and people who say that he is wrong are simply revisionists who want to pervert scripture to fit their own politically-correct liberal agenda?

“Don’t. Instead, compare it to premarital sex and divorce (and if they object, they are hypocrites). That basically removes the sting of their argument, because they can’t possibly hold that 97% of people are actually as bad as murderers, even if they intellectually (used in a technical sense) try to hold on to that belief.”

Oh, they would say that 97% of people are as bad as murderes. We all have original sin after all. I have no trouble imagining them saying that.

No kidding. But unless you think that what Pat Robertson does and says actually changes the essence of the religion (as opposed to how it’s practiced by his followers), Jesus (and the apostles) are the be all and end all of Christianity.

“Well maybe that’s not what the PR department of the Catholic Church has said, but I’ve spoken to many Christian apologists, including Catholics, and when I bawk at them comparing homosexuality to, for instance murder, they insist that no one sin is worse than another and they are all ‘fruits on the tree of sin”.”

Don’t. Instead, compare it to premarital sex and divorce (and if they object, they are hypocrites). That basically removes the sting of their argument, because they can’t possibly hold that 97% of people are actually as bad as murderers, even if they intellectually (used in a technical sense) try to hold on to that belief.

what I suspect they actually tell you is that all sins are equal, those as heinous as murder or as benign as gossip. It is you who chooses to link homosexuality and murder rather than homosexuality and gossip, not the Church.

(this is not some endorsement of Catholic theology, but rather a desire that we not speak foolishly and illustrate our ignorance)

Jesus was not the be all and end all of Christianity. There has been popes, kings, ‘saints’, Martin Luther, Pat Robertson, and many others who have told and do tell their followers to do evil for their religion.

“One or two nutty bishops, I’m sure. The Catholic Church as an institution holds no such position.”

Well maybe that’s not what the PR department of the Catholic Church has said, but I’ve spoken to many Christian apologists, including Catholics, and when I bawk at them comparing homosexuality to, for instance murder, they insist that no one sin is worse than another and they are all ‘fruits on the tree of sin”.

The same what? The fact of the matter is that Jesus never told his followers to do evil (quite the contrary), whereas Muhammad told his followers to do innumerable evil things. And they do. I guess Muslims are misinterpreting their religion, because they do not ask Emily whether she approves of their actions (in which case it is a ‘right’ interpretation of Islam) or not (in which case they are wrongly interpreting their own religion).

“Likewise, though the Catholic church has called accepting one’s sexual orientation as normal as being a sin as bad as child molestation by priests,”

One or two nutty bishops, I’m sure. The Catholic Church as an institution holds no such position. On the other hand, you can marry 6-year old girls in Islam and have sex with them when they are 9 (like the ‘prophet’ did), you can marry 4 women (or 4 6-year old girls), but you can’t be gay, you can’t have premarital sex, you can’t convert to another religion (without staying alive, anyway).

“And while the very powerful Haredi sect in Israel can hold power over the government and demand that Jerusalem “not become Sodom,” there still exists a prominent gay communicty in Tel Aviv, and even Jerusalem pride events.”

And the ayatollahs in Iran, do they oppose the prominent gay community in Qom, or Tehran pride events?

It hasn’t even been established that he was asked to comment on that issue, and that he did not simply volunteer it.

“And he’d be “compromised” because the more moderate among his coreligionists would react by immediately putting their hands over their ears and going “Tra-la-la, I can’t hear you!””

Considering that he argues for the murder of gay people, that might not be a bad thing.

“But to repeat what I said above, Ahmed Saad’s book is virtually unprecedented in the history of Egyptian publishing. And if you consider that Mostafa Fathi’s novel In the Country of Boys (which only appeared in 2009, and had to be self-published) was secular in tone and thereby avoided the problem of directly criticizing the Quran or Muhammad, then Saad’s book may be totally without precedent in the context of Egypt — it’s truly the first of its kind in its own country.”

It is not clear to me what this has to do with “Koran or Muhammad”, since he is not saying anything about them – except that he agrees with them in calling for cold-blooded murder. He could just as easily have omitted them and made his own work as “secular in tone” as the other one.

Apparently, you aren’t listening. Hasn’t Emily already told you that Islam is a religion of peace and love? If some Muslims are anti-gay, then they are misinterpreting Islam, and if the Koran is anti-gay, then Muhammad misinterpreted Islam. Maybe he was spoon-fed those things by anti-Islam websites.

Exactly! the same things happen in Christianity and Judaism. Glad you finally “get it.” Otherwise, organizations like these couldn’t exist: http://www.al-bab.com/arab/background/gay.htm

Likewise, though the Catholic church has called accepting one’s sexual orientation as normal as being a sin as bad as child molestation by priests, organizations such as Dignity can still exist.

And while the very powerful Haredi sect in Israel can hold power over the government and demand that Jerusalem “not become Sodom,” there still exists a prominent gay communicty in Tel Aviv, and even Jerusalem pride events.