Don’t quote me on this, I’m only going by what I’ve been told.

But I understand that much of Malaysia views the Koran in a manner that Western Christianity views the Bible – as a divinely inspired Word of God, but not one that is taken literally at all times. Thus, Malaysia has some religious freedom and political stability. Even some degree of social acceptance of gay people. I think you could probably call the country civilized.

Again, I know little about Malaysia and this is likely not a very sophisticated analysis.

The problem with trying to attribute attitudes to others is that you actually have to be somewhat close or else you look like a fool.

For example, when you quoted me above and attributed a hypocritical attitude to me, you made one glaring mistake: I don’t quote the Koran – I don’t talk about “the crazy violent BS in Islam’s holy book”. I don’t assume that I can cherry pick text to prove some point.

I am not a scholar of Islam and cannot discuss with any authority the teachings and interpretations of the various sects of that faith. And to thrown down some cut-and-paste words as some trump card would be intellectually dishonest of me – just as it is intellectually dishonest when antiChristians cherry pick scripture to try and set up strawmen about “what Christians believe.”

I do know what Imam Abdallah Adhami believes, however. He told us.

I understand. Reading is not your forte, or you would have read a book by now.

Penguinsaur: ““All the crazy violent BS in my holy book doesn’t count, but all that crazy violent BS in Islam’s holy book totally does count!””

Not too surprising, if you were to realize that the Bible and the Koran are two very different books, and that they are viewed in a different way. Christians view the Bible as divinely inspired, whereas (‘mainstream’, non-fundamentalist) Muslims view the Koran as the uncreated, eternal word of God. Thus, Christians don’t have to take the “crazy violent BS” seriously (and how many Christians do?), while Muslims do. It therefore should not come as a surprise that it’s hard to find a civilized Muslim-majority state.

“All the crazy violent BS in my holy book doesn’t count, but all that crazy violent BS in Islam’s holy book totally does count!”

“these muzzies can’t be all bad if they hate the fags”

I’m not going to stick around for that.

Please don’t.

As usual, your cherry picked texts have nothing to do with Christian theology. While your continued insistence that “if it’s in the text it must be a Christian tenet” may work with other antiChristianists, it simply is wrong.

The codes dealing with paganism in Deuteronomy were not adopted by Christianity. It isn’t that “more muslims than christians take this seriously” but rather that absolutely no Christians believe that these scripture apply to either Christianity or to how they should treat those who do not share the faith.

In fact, I doubt that there are any Jews (who, in theory might be held by Deuteronomical codes) that believe that these scriptures have a literal application to how they worship today.

I’m sorry that this doesn’t fit well with your antiChristianist campaign. Well, no actually, I’m not.

Of course you are.

Timothy said “Perhaps they only exist in the imaginations of antiChristianists.”.

Perhaps not:

Deuteronomy 12:30

Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Deuteronomy 17:2-7

2If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

3And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:

5Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

6At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

7The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Now you can explain to us how those passages don’t really mean what they say, I’m not going to stick around for that.

Lest you say that it is not easy to “imitate Jesus”: I am not talking about how easy it is to imitate Jesus, but how easy it can be combined with being a “peaceful, good and loving person”.