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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Show me what you&#8217;ve got&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Kurt Barrie</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88449</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt Barrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 10:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88449</guid>
		<description>Thank you for allowing me to believe other sane individuals roam this earth.  I organized a protest this evening at City Hall in protest of the injustice that has been disguised as another great job by the Police.  Who maintain there was no bias in this case.  Even though an analysis of Police records ordered by the court show that Police ignored the fact that 83 percent of the complaints regarding sex in public were for heterosexuals who engaged in sex at Soak City Waterpark where kids play,  and other places and the Police didn&#039;t arrest a single one of them.  In fact when asked on the stand if they ever recall any officer ever arresting a heterosexual for sex in public and they all said &quot;no&quot;.  They claim they held the sting because of complaints they received yet the only complaint confirmed was from a gay man who took the stand for the defense stating he complained about prostitution,  and not gay prostitutes.  So its rather clear what the Police motives were when you ad the gay slurs that the cops made throughout the sting,  even though the judge said they were not directed at anyone.  Sure and I&#039;m sitting here with Toto and the Tin Man eating bon bons on alibaba&#039;s majic carpet.  Homophobia has become the big denial.  No matter what you say they pee on you and then try and tell you its rain.  We are planning another protest next Wed at the City Council since we have to suffer,  we figure they should too.  Like a bad headache that asprin cannot make go away,  we will keep pounding in their heads until they see it the right way.  LOL  Thanks its refreshing to know intelligent life does exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for allowing me to believe other sane individuals roam this earth.  I organized a protest this evening at City Hall in protest of the injustice that has been disguised as another great job by the Police.  Who maintain there was no bias in this case.  Even though an analysis of Police records ordered by the court show that Police ignored the fact that 83 percent of the complaints regarding sex in public were for heterosexuals who engaged in sex at Soak City Waterpark where kids play,  and other places and the Police didn&#8217;t arrest a single one of them.  In fact when asked on the stand if they ever recall any officer ever arresting a heterosexual for sex in public and they all said &#8220;no&#8221;.  They claim they held the sting because of complaints they received yet the only complaint confirmed was from a gay man who took the stand for the defense stating he complained about prostitution,  and not gay prostitutes.  So its rather clear what the Police motives were when you ad the gay slurs that the cops made throughout the sting,  even though the judge said they were not directed at anyone.  Sure and I&#8217;m sitting here with Toto and the Tin Man eating bon bons on alibaba&#8217;s majic carpet.  Homophobia has become the big denial.  No matter what you say they pee on you and then try and tell you its rain.  We are planning another protest next Wed at the City Council since we have to suffer,  we figure they should too.  Like a bad headache that asprin cannot make go away,  we will keep pounding in their heads until they see it the right way.  LOL  Thanks its refreshing to know intelligent life does exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88184</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 18:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88184</guid>
		<description>Scooter, you have not addressed the fact that if there is a problem with public indecency, then the cops must have plenty of people to arrest without encouraging more people to commit crimes.

No one is arguing that nothing should be done.  People are arguing that what has been done makes no freaking sense and you have said nothing to refute that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scooter, you have not addressed the fact that if there is a problem with public indecency, then the cops must have plenty of people to arrest without encouraging more people to commit crimes.</p>
<p>No one is arguing that nothing should be done.  People are arguing that what has been done makes no freaking sense and you have said nothing to refute that.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter J</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88118</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 01:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88118</guid>
		<description>And how about words from a local Palm Springs, openly gay man who is testifying for the Prosecution, (dated two days ago). . . 

Palm Springs resident Stephen Chele, an openly gay man, disagrees and came to the courtroom to support Anderson, (the officer who uttered the alleged homophobic slur).

“I feel what he said was inappropriate in a perfect world, but as far them prosecuting him as a homophobe -- he is not a homophobe,” Chele said, adding that Anderson helped arrest the men who attacked Chele during a hate crime in 1999.


Furthermore, Chele said the police were only reacting to complaints made in the neighborhood and had the responsibility to take care of it.


“The crimes still occurred and what’s been going on on those streeets are an embarrassment to the entire gay community,” Chele said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how about words from a local Palm Springs, openly gay man who is testifying for the Prosecution, (dated two days ago). . . </p>
<p>Palm Springs resident Stephen Chele, an openly gay man, disagrees and came to the courtroom to support Anderson, (the officer who uttered the alleged homophobic slur).</p>
<p>“I feel what he said was inappropriate in a perfect world, but as far them prosecuting him as a homophobe &#8212; he is not a homophobe,” Chele said, adding that Anderson helped arrest the men who attacked Chele during a hate crime in 1999.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Chele said the police were only reacting to complaints made in the neighborhood and had the responsibility to take care of it.</p>
<p>“The crimes still occurred and what’s been going on on those streeets are an embarrassment to the entire gay community,” Chele said.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter J</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88092</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88092</guid>
		<description>Priya:  please answer the question, have you been to Warm Sands before?

If you have been there and you are honest in your convictions, (and I am certain you are), then you certainly understand what I have written about the place and the people who loiter on the streets there at night. 

This Warm Sands situation is absolutely no different than the arrests under the old pier or dunes in P-Town, the bushes in Griffith Park, in your local park restroom, in the highway rest stop, and in every public place that becomes known as a gay cruising/sex location.  When we start congregating in public places to engage in public sex, then there will always be a law enforcement agency under pressure from their community to stop it, and rightly so.

I am all about personal responsiblity and I take my life&#039;s decisions and the resultant consequences very seriously.  I do not blame other people or circumstances when I make a bad choice.  The Palm Springs Chief of Police made a bad choice with his homophobic statements and a result is now living with the consequences of no job and public ridicule.

Lewd conduct in public is a bad choice regardless of the situation. Talking up strangers in a notorious cruise spot although not illegal is probably a little risky, showing your ding-dong in the same place is illegal, and really, really stupid.

I am actually a nice person who sometimes enjoys blogging on this brilliant website.  So it is always a little discouraging when other bloggers go on the personal attack.  Oh well, I still enjoy respectfully reading and considering your thoughtful posts.  Have a nice weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priya:  please answer the question, have you been to Warm Sands before?</p>
<p>If you have been there and you are honest in your convictions, (and I am certain you are), then you certainly understand what I have written about the place and the people who loiter on the streets there at night. </p>
<p>This Warm Sands situation is absolutely no different than the arrests under the old pier or dunes in P-Town, the bushes in Griffith Park, in your local park restroom, in the highway rest stop, and in every public place that becomes known as a gay cruising/sex location.  When we start congregating in public places to engage in public sex, then there will always be a law enforcement agency under pressure from their community to stop it, and rightly so.</p>
<p>I am all about personal responsiblity and I take my life&#8217;s decisions and the resultant consequences very seriously.  I do not blame other people or circumstances when I make a bad choice.  The Palm Springs Chief of Police made a bad choice with his homophobic statements and a result is now living with the consequences of no job and public ridicule.</p>
<p>Lewd conduct in public is a bad choice regardless of the situation. Talking up strangers in a notorious cruise spot although not illegal is probably a little risky, showing your ding-dong in the same place is illegal, and really, really stupid.</p>
<p>I am actually a nice person who sometimes enjoys blogging on this brilliant website.  So it is always a little discouraging when other bloggers go on the personal attack.  Oh well, I still enjoy respectfully reading and considering your thoughtful posts.  Have a nice weekend.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88074</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88074</guid>
		<description>Scooter, you may think one&#039;s mere presence in an area is evidence of guilt - that&#039;s not the case.  Your &quot;experience&quot; counts for nothing, you&#039;re not a mind reader, you are not in a position to judge whether or not these people would have committed a crime if they had not been invited to do so. 

A lot of people go into an area for a lot of different reasons.  Unless you are going to argue that you&#039;re omniscient you&#039;re in no position to decide what an exhaustive list of those reasons is.

Your entire argument is built on the assumption that you can read minds and are omniscient - get down off your high horse and come back to reality.  No rational person is going to take you seriously when you claim to list &quot;the only&quot; reasons a person would be in an area.

The law must set an example by playing by the rules.  &quot;Show me what you&#039;ve got&quot; is entrapment.  If there is any truth to your claims about the rampant public sex in that area police officers don&#039;t need to break the law and become criminals in order to arrest criminals. If entrapment is the only way they can arrest people for public sex there obviously isn&#039;t any real problem with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scooter, you may think one&#8217;s mere presence in an area is evidence of guilt &#8211; that&#8217;s not the case.  Your &#8220;experience&#8221; counts for nothing, you&#8217;re not a mind reader, you are not in a position to judge whether or not these people would have committed a crime if they had not been invited to do so. </p>
<p>A lot of people go into an area for a lot of different reasons.  Unless you are going to argue that you&#8217;re omniscient you&#8217;re in no position to decide what an exhaustive list of those reasons is.</p>
<p>Your entire argument is built on the assumption that you can read minds and are omniscient &#8211; get down off your high horse and come back to reality.  No rational person is going to take you seriously when you claim to list &#8220;the only&#8221; reasons a person would be in an area.</p>
<p>The law must set an example by playing by the rules.  &#8220;Show me what you&#8217;ve got&#8221; is entrapment.  If there is any truth to your claims about the rampant public sex in that area police officers don&#8217;t need to break the law and become criminals in order to arrest criminals. If entrapment is the only way they can arrest people for public sex there obviously isn&#8217;t any real problem with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter J</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88073</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88073</guid>
		<description>. . . &quot;bait and push someone into doing the crime&quot;. . . the crime was nonetheless committed. . . period.  This is an Adam versus Eve debate. . . Eve was the temptress, but Adam took the bite.  Who is at fault?  

Take responsibility for yourselves people, stop blaming everyone else for your actions and poor decision making.

If loitering and public sexual activity began on my street or in my neighborhood, I would call the police.  If it did not stop I would put pressure on my public officials to stop it.  I am gay and I am not a prude, I just don&#039;t want that happening in my neighborhood, I do not think it is ever appropriate, and. . . oh yeah, it is against the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>. . . &#8220;bait and push someone into doing the crime&#8221;. . . the crime was nonetheless committed. . . period.  This is an Adam versus Eve debate. . . Eve was the temptress, but Adam took the bite.  Who is at fault?  </p>
<p>Take responsibility for yourselves people, stop blaming everyone else for your actions and poor decision making.</p>
<p>If loitering and public sexual activity began on my street or in my neighborhood, I would call the police.  If it did not stop I would put pressure on my public officials to stop it.  I am gay and I am not a prude, I just don&#8217;t want that happening in my neighborhood, I do not think it is ever appropriate, and. . . oh yeah, it is against the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter J</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88070</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88070</guid>
		<description>I love the spirited debate Priya, thank you.

Have you been to the Warm Sands area before?  There is no reason to go there at night except to (1) go to your private resort; (2) go to your private home; (3) visit someone at their private resort or home; or (4) to cruise for sex.  This is a quiet residentail area that happens to have several all-male guest houses.  

First hand experience is all the evidence I need, and all the evidence anyone who has been to this area should need.  I enjoy staying at one of the men&#039;s resorts in the area and visit there two or three times per year. 

Walk into the street 24/7 and you will be enticed with hook up opportunities.  Walk in the street on a nice night and it is a veritable buffet.  

Even so, I make the personal and responsible decision to do my hanky-panky-ing in private and thus do not have an issue with the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the spirited debate Priya, thank you.</p>
<p>Have you been to the Warm Sands area before?  There is no reason to go there at night except to (1) go to your private resort; (2) go to your private home; (3) visit someone at their private resort or home; or (4) to cruise for sex.  This is a quiet residentail area that happens to have several all-male guest houses.  </p>
<p>First hand experience is all the evidence I need, and all the evidence anyone who has been to this area should need.  I enjoy staying at one of the men&#8217;s resorts in the area and visit there two or three times per year. </p>
<p>Walk into the street 24/7 and you will be enticed with hook up opportunities.  Walk in the street on a nice night and it is a veritable buffet.  </p>
<p>Even so, I make the personal and responsible decision to do my hanky-panky-ing in private and thus do not have an issue with the law.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Peron</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88068</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Peron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88068</guid>
		<description>A defense attorney friend once made an important distinction for me. Years ago we had &quot;peace officers,&quot; whose jobs were to keep the peace and protect people from criminals. But he says this changed slowly over the years and they ceased being peace officers and became law enforcement officers.

Peace officers protect individuals from criminals. Law enforcement officers protect the state from the people doing anything the state deems wrong, whether rights are violated or not. Peace officers work within the realm of rights, law enforcement officers recognize rights ONLY if the law explicitly says they must, and they might get caught (even then they often don&#039;t.)

When government agents have to suggest the crime, and encourage the crime, and bait and push someone into doing the crime, they are not protecting the public from the crime, they are manufacturing the crime. If that specific incident of a &quot;crime&quot; had, as a necessary component, the actions of a police officer, then they are manufacturing crime, not stopping it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A defense attorney friend once made an important distinction for me. Years ago we had &#8220;peace officers,&#8221; whose jobs were to keep the peace and protect people from criminals. But he says this changed slowly over the years and they ceased being peace officers and became law enforcement officers.</p>
<p>Peace officers protect individuals from criminals. Law enforcement officers protect the state from the people doing anything the state deems wrong, whether rights are violated or not. Peace officers work within the realm of rights, law enforcement officers recognize rights ONLY if the law explicitly says they must, and they might get caught (even then they often don&#8217;t.)</p>
<p>When government agents have to suggest the crime, and encourage the crime, and bait and push someone into doing the crime, they are not protecting the public from the crime, they are manufacturing the crime. If that specific incident of a &#8220;crime&#8221; had, as a necessary component, the actions of a police officer, then they are manufacturing crime, not stopping it.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88053</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88053</guid>
		<description>Scooter said &quot;When you are in the Warm Sands area, at night, lurking around, you are there with the intent of, in the very least, hooking up,&quot;.

You don&#039;t have any evidence to support that assumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scooter said &#8220;When you are in the Warm Sands area, at night, lurking around, you are there with the intent of, in the very least, hooking up,&#8221;.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have any evidence to support that assumption.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter J</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30061/comment-page-1#comment-88051</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=30061#comment-88051</guid>
		<description>A person is &#039;entrapped&#039; when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that HE/SHE HAD NO PREVIOUS INTENT TO COMMIT.

When you are in the Warm Sands area, at night, lurking around, you are there with the intent of, in the very least, hooking up, and given the reputation of the area, having a quick snog in the bush.

Why are we having such difficulties with the notion of personal responsibility and acceptance of the consequences of our poor decision making?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A person is &#8216;entrapped&#8217; when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that HE/SHE HAD NO PREVIOUS INTENT TO COMMIT.</p>
<p>When you are in the Warm Sands area, at night, lurking around, you are there with the intent of, in the very least, hooking up, and given the reputation of the area, having a quick snog in the bush.</p>
<p>Why are we having such difficulties with the notion of personal responsibility and acceptance of the consequences of our poor decision making?</p>
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