I’m not convinced of the censorship argument myself. Apple runs a store. If I were to write a book, do I have the right to demand that Barnes & Noble stock it?

Actually, this is a good example. Barnes and Noble as a private business carries such books as will appeal to their customers and ensure a profit. They have decided that they will include both gay supportive books and those which espouse anti-gay ideologies and proposals.

We could, if we were so inclined, lobby B&N to only include books that have our views and are not contradicted by others. In fact, some in our community would suggest that we have an obligation to shut down those voices which favor mistreatment of our community.

And we could go to our friends and supporters and lobby and petition and try to make B&N feel a financial pressure to remove books by Ann Coulter or Mike Huckabee. AT the very least, drop books by Alan Chambers or Joe Dallas, we could say.

We could put it in terms of civil rights and morality.

And we might be successful. And as this is a private decision of a private company, there is no question of censorship. Besides, such books are still available directly from the authors and it’s but a small inconvenience in the age of the internet.

But I would oppose such an effort.

Had the brunt of this Apple app campaign been based on factual inaccuracies and fraudulent misuse of research, and had it given Exodus parameters around which to resolve the conflict, I would be a vocal supporter. I was not. Rather it was a campaign to shut down Exodus’ app because we don’t like Exodus’ views.

Exodus’ views are deemed to be hatred and discriminatory and harmful (and for some reason we threw in “gay exorcisms”, even though Exodus does not perform exorcisms) and in opposition to diversity and equality. So let’s shut them down.

Here is the language of the petition on change.org:

As concerns citizens of the United States Of America and consumers of all Apple products, we write this letter asking Apple to BAN all discrimintory applications by Exodus International on the Apple App Store. We know Apple believes in diversity and equality and we know you will do what is morally right by removing such content. Exodus International strives on demonizing the LGBT population, going as far as performing emotional, mental, and sometimes even physical harm to LGBT people by performing “gay exorcisms”. Applications on Apple App Store should not promote hatred and discrimination to any minority group and we DEMAND that you BAN ALL APPLICATIONS by EXODUS INTERNATIONAL that have been approved by Apple with discriminitory gestures within.

In fact, that’s the right thing to do.

Now I know some of you are saying to yourselves “Well some people think gays are immoral!”

Yup, they do. And we have to argue about them with that.

If a company were to refuse to disseminate pro-gay material, the right argument to make to them would NOT be “You shouldn’t restrict immoral material, you should be a marketplace of all ideas, even ones you think are obscene!”

No, the right argument would be “There’s nothing immoral about homosexuality”

It seems people crying about “censorship” keep avoiding having a discussion about the merits of the various positions.

So let’s get the merits clear: anti-gay = bad, pro-gay = good. Yeah, there’s disagreement about that, and so we continue to have the argument.

I think that we ought not take the approach of extending or restricting access to information based on point of view. So I oppose the idea of lobbying Apple to deny an app for Exodus.

If Exodus want to produce an app for Android, I’d have no problem with that at all. Android is an (almost) open platform. The iPhone and the iPad are not open platforms. When you buy an iPhone, you do not actually own it. You do not have the right to run any software on your iPhone unless that software has been approved by Apple.

So when Apple allows an Exodus International app, that sends the message that Apple approves of Exodus International. And that wouldn’t be a problem either, if Apple was like Amazon, selling anything it can get its hands on. Amazon is happy to sell anti-gay books, and gay books, and there’s no hypocrisy involved there. They sell anything. Apple, by contrast, is quite restrictive. They blocked VLC Media Player (which is only the best on the planet) because of incompatibilities between the GNU GPL and the iPhone ToS. They block a lot of stuff, for a lot of reasons. They block pornography apps (Playboy has an iPhone app … for the articles).

So when Apple allows an Exodus International app, that sends the message that Apple approves of Exodus International. And I think that encouraging Apple to change their mind is no bad thing.

TRiG.

I looked at this application and looked at the TOS, and it most certainly does defame a group. Period. Call it what you want, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

I am tired of hearing the “censorship” strawman, as Apple doesn’t have to carry your crap, and you don’t have to use Apple’s products. That’s what freedom is about, and the conservatives who argue otherwise run right into a brick wall called “Hypocrisy” as their typical response to anything these days is “free markets”.

Here’s the short version:

I think that we ought not take the approach of extending or restricting access to information based on point of view. So I oppose the idea of lobbying Apple to deny an app for Exodus.

If Exodus wants a ‘pray the gay away’ app, I have no problem with that.

On the other hand, the Exodus site contains objectively false information and deliberate distortion of people’s work. Dr. Ramiferi, for example, is well entitled to object to the misuse of his name and reputation and I support him in doing so.

So, for me, the resolution would be that Apple refuse to allow the app for so long as it links to false facts or deliberate distortions of others’ work.

In other words, hey Exodus, I support your right to exist and the have a fair footing in the marketplace of ideas. But you make it difficult when you get involved in all the other crap. Clean up your act and I’ll be the first to champion your right to spew your nonsense.

“I do not believe letting Exodus keep its App in the App store will stop the march of progress in the American civil rights movement.”

But it will send a message that defaming gay people is acceptable, that fundamentalist groups that are sneaky enough and cry loud enough can get their way, and that quack groups are free to prey on vulnerable children and adults with their pseudoscientific bullsh*t, so long as they claim it’s for Jesus.

I’m not sure how that will help anyone but Exodus…The app was released with children in mind. If anyone needs protection from predatory frauds like Exodus, it’s vulnerable LGBT youth. “Agreeing to disagree” doesn’t feel so good when people are being hurt in the meantime.”.

There are not two legitimate sides up for debate here. Exodus’ sole reason for existing is to fan the flames of society’s loathing of gay people, which in-turn produces self-loathing gays. We can either defend ourselves or allow them to trample on us.

While Exodus’ loss of the Apple App won’t do much to curtail their activities, the fact that a large respected company refuses to be associated with them is worth something in the battle for public opinion. The degree to which our opponents rant about it will be directly proportional to it’s significance to our cause.