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	<title>Comments on: Leader of Maine&#8217;s Yes on 1 Campaign Admits to Lying</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Shofixti</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-2#comment-93009</link>
		<dc:creator>Shofixti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-93009</guid>
		<description>Hi &lt;b&gt;Dan&lt;/b&gt;,

Welcome and thanks for sharing, I am very edified by your openness. I hope that you will stick around.

The first social norm that you should be aware of is the &lt;i&gt;frenzy of coherence&lt;/i&gt;, perhaps you can already detect this theme? It is objectively rational that everything should fit snuggly into a category, and we do not question the motivation or urgency behind categorisation - because there &lt;i&gt;is none&lt;/i&gt;.

The second is that it is normative to talk about sexual identity as something that cannot explain sexual behaviour and conversely, evidence of sexual behaviour cannot be used as an indicator of sexual identity. That appears to be the logic applied to your history. 

Pursuant to points one and two: If some aspect of your capacity for sexual attraction was mutable, that would only create dangerous incoherence. Any mutability suggests that &lt;i&gt;Religiously Mediated Change&lt;/i&gt; might secretly be gaining credibility (even when it isn&#039;t).

It could be then that bisexuality becomes a catch-all category for anyone who cannot produce normative homosexuality to a satisfactory standard.

The third, is that while EA has &quot;virtually&quot; the entire life sciences behind him, we &lt;i&gt;virtually&lt;/i&gt; have to take his word for it. EA is loathe to reference an idea, but I do accept that it may be that those journals are in German.

They are a good bunch. My personal interests are about understanding people who are different to me, Queer theory, and how our use of identity regulates pleasure and knowledge and conformity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi <b>Dan</b>,</p>
<p>Welcome and thanks for sharing, I am very edified by your openness. I hope that you will stick around.</p>
<p>The first social norm that you should be aware of is the <i>frenzy of coherence</i>, perhaps you can already detect this theme? It is objectively rational that everything should fit snuggly into a category, and we do not question the motivation or urgency behind categorisation &#8211; because there <i>is none</i>.</p>
<p>The second is that it is normative to talk about sexual identity as something that cannot explain sexual behaviour and conversely, evidence of sexual behaviour cannot be used as an indicator of sexual identity. That appears to be the logic applied to your history. </p>
<p>Pursuant to points one and two: If some aspect of your capacity for sexual attraction was mutable, that would only create dangerous incoherence. Any mutability suggests that <i>Religiously Mediated Change</i> might secretly be gaining credibility (even when it isn&#8217;t).</p>
<p>It could be then that bisexuality becomes a catch-all category for anyone who cannot produce normative homosexuality to a satisfactory standard.</p>
<p>The third, is that while EA has &#8220;virtually&#8221; the entire life sciences behind him, we <i>virtually</i> have to take his word for it. EA is loathe to reference an idea, but I do accept that it may be that those journals are in German.</p>
<p>They are a good bunch. My personal interests are about understanding people who are different to me, Queer theory, and how our use of identity regulates pleasure and knowledge and conformity.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92982</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92982</guid>
		<description>If Evangelicals had saints, he&#039;d be one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Evangelicals had saints, he&#8217;d be one.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: enough already</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92981</link>
		<dc:creator>enough already</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92981</guid>
		<description>Tinothy,
re: Reagan
There&#039;s a difference:-)))?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tinothy,<br />
re: Reagan<br />
There&#8217;s a difference:-)))?</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92975</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92975</guid>
		<description>Dan,

In regards to the mutability of sexuality, take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/12/13990&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this commentary&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>In regards to the mutability of sexuality, take a look at <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/12/13990" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">this commentary</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92973</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92973</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m on your side more than on 80% of the relevant topics.

Didn’t one of your religious leaders say something about that?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well... not exactly.  That was Ronald Reagan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m on your side more than on 80% of the relevant topics.</p>
<p>Didn’t one of your religious leaders say something about that?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well&#8230; not exactly.  That was Ronald Reagan.</p>
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		<title>By: enough already</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92861</link>
		<dc:creator>enough already</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92861</guid>
		<description>Dan,
I&#039;ve got virtually the entire medical, psychiatric and high-level mammalian life sciences behind me on this:
Sexuality is immutable.
Now, perhaps we mean different things by the term &quot;sexuality&quot;. I mean by it, the natural sexual orientation which leads to pairing when not under duress.
I&#039;m not a native English speaker, so sometimes I make mistakes. Sometimes, I use the term &quot;properly&quot; without realising that the current &quot;meaning&quot; is the exact opposite of the dictionary proper meaning.
So, let me ask you, what do you mean by &quot;sexuality is mutable&quot;?
As neither of us are fundamentalist Christians, it should be possible to find a working range of definitions.

I don&#039;t see anything inherently prejudicial against bisexuals in my statement - one either is capable of sexual attraction to both men and women or one is not. If not, then one is not bisexual. If so, then one&#039;s sexuality is not changed by throwing away one partner and taking another of the other sex. One has been true to oneself.

Dan, the rules of this blog don&#039;t permit us to discuss a limited number of topics here. This is one of them. We can&#039;t have an open discussion about this because it invariably causes intervention by the blog moderators and hard feelings all around. You&#039;ll have to either accept or reject that I also stand 100% behind the right of bisexuals to enjoy full human status and full civil rights, just as I do for the gays, lesbians, transgender and intersexed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,<br />
I&#8217;ve got virtually the entire medical, psychiatric and high-level mammalian life sciences behind me on this:<br />
Sexuality is immutable.<br />
Now, perhaps we mean different things by the term &#8220;sexuality&#8221;. I mean by it, the natural sexual orientation which leads to pairing when not under duress.<br />
I&#8217;m not a native English speaker, so sometimes I make mistakes. Sometimes, I use the term &#8220;properly&#8221; without realising that the current &#8220;meaning&#8221; is the exact opposite of the dictionary proper meaning.<br />
So, let me ask you, what do you mean by &#8220;sexuality is mutable&#8221;?<br />
As neither of us are fundamentalist Christians, it should be possible to find a working range of definitions.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see anything inherently prejudicial against bisexuals in my statement &#8211; one either is capable of sexual attraction to both men and women or one is not. If not, then one is not bisexual. If so, then one&#8217;s sexuality is not changed by throwing away one partner and taking another of the other sex. One has been true to oneself.</p>
<p>Dan, the rules of this blog don&#8217;t permit us to discuss a limited number of topics here. This is one of them. We can&#8217;t have an open discussion about this because it invariably causes intervention by the blog moderators and hard feelings all around. You&#8217;ll have to either accept or reject that I also stand 100% behind the right of bisexuals to enjoy full human status and full civil rights, just as I do for the gays, lesbians, transgender and intersexed.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92855</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92855</guid>
		<description>enough already,
My apologies.  I missed the hyperbole and started in on you assuming you were being 100% literal.  As you may have noticed, I&#039;m new here and probably should have taken a bit more time to familiarize myself with the posters and social norms before jumping in.

That said I disagree strongly with your assertion that sexuality is immutable, unless you mean something different than (what I think) the common understanding is.  However the subtleties involved in sexuality how it interacts with attraction do not lend themselves to useful discussion with bigots whose argument is &#039;you can just stop being gay if you really wanted to, so by being gay you are deliberately insulting me and god&#039;.  Thus I understand why it is desireable to argue that for the purpose of legal arguments relating to discrimination.

Also, and correct me if I&#039;m misinterpreting you, you seem hostile to bisexuals.  Would you mind explaining why, given that bisexuals are intrinsically self-motivated to support marriage and legal equity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>enough already,<br />
My apologies.  I missed the hyperbole and started in on you assuming you were being 100% literal.  As you may have noticed, I&#8217;m new here and probably should have taken a bit more time to familiarize myself with the posters and social norms before jumping in.</p>
<p>That said I disagree strongly with your assertion that sexuality is immutable, unless you mean something different than (what I think) the common understanding is.  However the subtleties involved in sexuality how it interacts with attraction do not lend themselves to useful discussion with bigots whose argument is &#8216;you can just stop being gay if you really wanted to, so by being gay you are deliberately insulting me and god&#8217;.  Thus I understand why it is desireable to argue that for the purpose of legal arguments relating to discrimination.</p>
<p>Also, and correct me if I&#8217;m misinterpreting you, you seem hostile to bisexuals.  Would you mind explaining why, given that bisexuals are intrinsically self-motivated to support marriage and legal equity?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: enough already</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92854</link>
		<dc:creator>enough already</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92854</guid>
		<description>Désirée,
When you are denied your civil rights, that is single-issue politics which matter.
This is how the Nazis came to power in Germany - too many people like you said it didn&#039;t matter how they treated the Jews, the main thing was,they got the economy in  order.

Oh, and speaking of which - being a liberal doesn&#039;t mean I don&#039;t understand economics. You conservatives have done an awful job on the economy - or do you think we&#039;ve forgotten?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Désirée,<br />
When you are denied your civil rights, that is single-issue politics which matter.<br />
This is how the Nazis came to power in Germany &#8211; too many people like you said it didn&#8217;t matter how they treated the Jews, the main thing was,they got the economy in  order.</p>
<p>Oh, and speaking of which &#8211; being a liberal doesn&#8217;t mean I don&#8217;t understand economics. You conservatives have done an awful job on the economy &#8211; or do you think we&#8217;ve forgotten?</p>
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		<title>By: Désirée</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92852</link>
		<dc:creator>Désirée</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92852</guid>
		<description>@Enough Already

some of us aren&#039;t Democrats/liberals because we are economic conservatives e.g. we believe in capitalism, free enterprise and individual liberty.  That fiscal conservatism has been unfortunately wedded to social conservatism does not make me any less in favor of full human rights for everybody.  I&#039;m just not willing to join a political party I disagree with on just about every other issue just for that one thing.  I&#039;m not a single-issue voter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Enough Already</p>
<p>some of us aren&#8217;t Democrats/liberals because we are economic conservatives e.g. we believe in capitalism, free enterprise and individual liberty.  That fiscal conservatism has been unfortunately wedded to social conservatism does not make me any less in favor of full human rights for everybody.  I&#8217;m just not willing to join a political party I disagree with on just about every other issue just for that one thing.  I&#8217;m not a single-issue voter.</p>
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		<title>By: enough already</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/18/31926/comment-page-1#comment-92846</link>
		<dc:creator>enough already</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=31926#comment-92846</guid>
		<description>Wow, everybody knows the moon is made of Stilton Cheese! 
I demand you put it right back, Timothy. We heard those crackers crunching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, everybody knows the moon is made of Stilton Cheese!<br />
I demand you put it right back, Timothy. We heard those crackers crunching.</p>
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