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	<title>Comments on: Judge Walker&#8217;s day (not) in court</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Mark F.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96111</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96111</guid>
		<description>Motion DENIED</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Motion DENIED</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96104</guid>
		<description>It must be a real bitch when a lawyer takes a case that&#039;s really a pig in a poke and draws two judges in a row who know the difference between the constitution  and a pig in a poke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It must be a real bitch when a lawyer takes a case that&#8217;s really a pig in a poke and draws two judges in a row who know the difference between the constitution  and a pig in a poke.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96091</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96091</guid>
		<description>thanks Donny</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Donny</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96090</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96090</guid>
		<description>Regan,

My guess is that NOM and ADF will peg Ware as a radical liberal activist judge along with a big picture so everyone can see that he&#039;s &lt;i&gt;black&lt;/i&gt; (and therefore obviously a radical activist out to push minorities ahead of The People).  Nowhere will they mention that he&#039;s a lifelong Republican.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regan,</p>
<p>My guess is that NOM and ADF will peg Ware as a radical liberal activist judge along with a big picture so everyone can see that he&#8217;s <i>black</i> (and therefore obviously a radical activist out to push minorities ahead of The People).  Nowhere will they mention that he&#8217;s a lifelong Republican.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96088</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96088</guid>
		<description>I read the transcripts posted over at P8TT and I&#039;ve followed this case extremely closely since 2008. I read Walker&#039;s 138 page conclusion for his decision, and I watched the appeals before.
  Prop.8 supporters are unceasing in their spin on not only how both trials were conducted, but after this. I believe their next tactic will be to sue the AG&#039;s office for not defending 8 in the appeals court. Omitting of course, the reason why.
 Two very substantial reasons why.

  Failing those, likely they&#039;ll say all over again that the AG, as was everyone involved, like Cooper or reps from his office and that of the ADF, had received threats and were too afraid to show up in court.

  However much they show up everywhere ELSE to testify, so to speak.

 I&#039;m looking forward to how NOM and FRC et al, respond to Ware, and his decision.
  Any bets it will be because he&#039;s in a mixed marriage and all the other legal precedents were regarding mixed marriage so HE has a stake in the outcome of Prop. 8?

   Or maybe they&#039;ll just attack him outright. Like they did the justices in Iowa.
We shall see, won&#039;t we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the transcripts posted over at P8TT and I&#8217;ve followed this case extremely closely since 2008. I read Walker&#8217;s 138 page conclusion for his decision, and I watched the appeals before.<br />
  Prop.8 supporters are unceasing in their spin on not only how both trials were conducted, but after this. I believe their next tactic will be to sue the AG&#8217;s office for not defending 8 in the appeals court. Omitting of course, the reason why.<br />
 Two very substantial reasons why.</p>
<p>  Failing those, likely they&#8217;ll say all over again that the AG, as was everyone involved, like Cooper or reps from his office and that of the ADF, had received threats and were too afraid to show up in court.</p>
<p>  However much they show up everywhere ELSE to testify, so to speak.</p>
<p> I&#8217;m looking forward to how NOM and FRC et al, respond to Ware, and his decision.<br />
  Any bets it will be because he&#8217;s in a mixed marriage and all the other legal precedents were regarding mixed marriage so HE has a stake in the outcome of Prop. 8?</p>
<p>   Or maybe they&#8217;ll just attack him outright. Like they did the justices in Iowa.<br />
We shall see, won&#8217;t we?</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Spencer Fox</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96072</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Spencer Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96072</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If the Prop8 proponents thought they had made a compelling case, they would be demanding that the tapes be released on Netflix.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hey now, Richard, be serious... they&#039;d be hocking it for $20 a pop with every &#039;dire alert&#039; email blast they send out. This &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; the Professional Anti-Gay Lobby, after all. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If the Prop8 proponents thought they had made a compelling case, they would be demanding that the tapes be released on Netflix.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hey now, Richard, be serious&#8230; they&#8217;d be hocking it for $20 a pop with every &#8216;dire alert&#8217; email blast they send out. This <b>is</b> the Professional Anti-Gay Lobby, after all. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Donny D.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96063</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96063</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Excellent article&lt;/b&gt;, Timothy.  By far the best I&#039;ve seen on this subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Excellent article</b>, Timothy.  By far the best I&#8217;ve seen on this subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96062</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96062</guid>
		<description>Regarding the trial tapes, how could anyone take this seriously?: &lt;i&gt;&quot;. . . they sought to discredit Judge Walker as not being respectful of the &lt;b&gt;danger&lt;/b&gt; to their witnesses.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; The only evidence supporting the &lt;b&gt;danger&lt;/b&gt;-argument I can think of is that, supposedly, one woman had a styrofoam cross knocked out of her hand. Are Maggie and Brian et al. risking their lives by routinely being out in public? If so, where is the evidence?

The obvious fact is that the only &lt;b&gt;danger&lt;/b&gt; from the release of the tapes is that the public would see how their case for Prop8 collapsed in the courtroom with their pathetically few and inept witnesses being under oath and cross-examined.

If the Prop8 proponents thought they had made a compelling case, they would be demanding that the tapes be released on Netflix.
_____

And, Ben, you nailed it on several key points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the trial tapes, how could anyone take this seriously?: <i>&#8220;. . . they sought to discredit Judge Walker as not being respectful of the <b>danger</b> to their witnesses.&#8221;</i> The only evidence supporting the <b>danger</b>-argument I can think of is that, supposedly, one woman had a styrofoam cross knocked out of her hand. Are Maggie and Brian et al. risking their lives by routinely being out in public? If so, where is the evidence?</p>
<p>The obvious fact is that the only <b>danger</b> from the release of the tapes is that the public would see how their case for Prop8 collapsed in the courtroom with their pathetically few and inept witnesses being under oath and cross-examined.</p>
<p>If the Prop8 proponents thought they had made a compelling case, they would be demanding that the tapes be released on Netflix.<br />
_____</p>
<p>And, Ben, you nailed it on several key points.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96049</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96049</guid>
		<description>Read the live blog over at Prop8Trialtracker and Cooper made a fool of himself (again).  Ware seemed to be equally tough on Boutrous, but Boutrous had actual answers.

From the admittedly sketchy posts, it seems as though the Proponents&#039; presumption of Walker&#039;s bias -- and that&#039;s what their argument boiled down to -- ticked Ware off.

I suspect they lost, but it will be interesting to see Ware&#039;s opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read the live blog over at Prop8Trialtracker and Cooper made a fool of himself (again).  Ware seemed to be equally tough on Boutrous, but Boutrous had actual answers.</p>
<p>From the admittedly sketchy posts, it seems as though the Proponents&#8217; presumption of Walker&#8217;s bias &#8212; and that&#8217;s what their argument boiled down to &#8212; ticked Ware off.</p>
<p>I suspect they lost, but it will be interesting to see Ware&#8217;s opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben In Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/13/34177/comment-page-1#comment-96043</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben In Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 04:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34177#comment-96043</guid>
		<description>NOM undercuts their own arguments. 

First, of course, they are NOT disputing the facts of walker&#039;s decision, only that he is gay. It&#039;s called an ad hominem attack-- if you can&#039;t dispute the logic, attack the man instead.

Second, they were not able to provide an even remotely credible defense. They just threw a lot of mud, hoping some would stick. Their &quot;star&quot; witness was unqualified, at best. And admitted that NOM&#039;s &quot;defense&quot; was completely bogus.

Third, if marriage equality is a threat to ALL heterosexual marriages and families, then no heterosexual judge could be impartial. After all, marriage equality, by NOM&#039;s own rhetoric, is a threat the freedom, children, heterosexual marriage, family, and faith. Who could be objective in that situation?

They also claim the judge walker could benefit by being married, thus admitting that California’s domestic partnerships are in fact NOT the equal of legal civil marriage.

It&#039;s just the same plain old ugly anti-gay bigotry, dressed up in its Sunday-go-to-meetin&#039; drag, and funded by the Catholic Church and their Mormon friends-for-the-moment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NOM undercuts their own arguments. </p>
<p>First, of course, they are NOT disputing the facts of walker&#8217;s decision, only that he is gay. It&#8217;s called an ad hominem attack&#8211; if you can&#8217;t dispute the logic, attack the man instead.</p>
<p>Second, they were not able to provide an even remotely credible defense. They just threw a lot of mud, hoping some would stick. Their &#8220;star&#8221; witness was unqualified, at best. And admitted that NOM&#8217;s &#8220;defense&#8221; was completely bogus.</p>
<p>Third, if marriage equality is a threat to ALL heterosexual marriages and families, then no heterosexual judge could be impartial. After all, marriage equality, by NOM&#8217;s own rhetoric, is a threat the freedom, children, heterosexual marriage, family, and faith. Who could be objective in that situation?</p>
<p>They also claim the judge walker could benefit by being married, thus admitting that California’s domestic partnerships are in fact NOT the equal of legal civil marriage.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just the same plain old ugly anti-gay bigotry, dressed up in its Sunday-go-to-meetin&#8217; drag, and funded by the Catholic Church and their Mormon friends-for-the-moment</p>
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