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	<title>Comments on: ADF&#8217;s new &#8220;survey&#8221; is ignored</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96451</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96451</guid>
		<description>PJB863, thanks for the link to those lovely folks at the IFI...what a red white and blue bunch of bullshit that was!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PJB863, thanks for the link to those lovely folks at the IFI&#8230;what a red white and blue bunch of bullshit that was!</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96427</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96427</guid>
		<description>Tom said &quot;Gays themselves aren’t interested in marriage. In the places where they can do it, very few do.&quot;.

Not true.  In the few months gays were allowed to marry over 18000 couples did so. 

As is typical of anti-gays you make up whatever story supports your viewpoint and pretend its the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom said &#8220;Gays themselves aren’t interested in marriage. In the places where they can do it, very few do.&#8221;.</p>
<p>Not true.  In the few months gays were allowed to marry over 18000 couples did so. </p>
<p>As is typical of anti-gays you make up whatever story supports your viewpoint and pretend its the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96397</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96397</guid>
		<description>I remember how Lou Sheldon and his daughter would grumble at what they thought were tax payer funded research and studies on gay people.
  Then they challenged the veracity of privately funded research of the same.

    Then they asserted that THEIR studies were the most accurate and truthful ones. Which actually weren&#039;t contemporary, comparative studies or research of a broad or lengthy sampling, but in fact selective cut and paste jobs on research that had been done decades ago on a sampling that consisted of gay men who&#039;d been institutionalized.
Because they, in no way, would want to fund any comprehensive studies at all.

   The TVC AND FoTF however, took these  suspect findings and reported them very differently and out of context to the subject.
  Similar to how this poll is reported by ADF, there is no breakdown of subjects they asked by gender or age or ethnicity. Nor a list of the questions they asked.

     I think considering that the ADF  AND TVC have been resentful of whatever expense has been utilized for research into how discrimination impacts gay lives, or how gay people live DESPITE discrimination.
 The ADF likes to think of themselves as impacted and victimized negatively by gay people.
  It would be pretty difficult to manufacture evidence of that, where there is none. Hence, lying would have to substitute.
  But they wouldn&#039;t want to spend the money, and invest the time in the sorts of effective research or polling that would come closer to more accurate results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember how Lou Sheldon and his daughter would grumble at what they thought were tax payer funded research and studies on gay people.<br />
  Then they challenged the veracity of privately funded research of the same.</p>
<p>    Then they asserted that THEIR studies were the most accurate and truthful ones. Which actually weren&#8217;t contemporary, comparative studies or research of a broad or lengthy sampling, but in fact selective cut and paste jobs on research that had been done decades ago on a sampling that consisted of gay men who&#8217;d been institutionalized.<br />
Because they, in no way, would want to fund any comprehensive studies at all.</p>
<p>   The TVC AND FoTF however, took these  suspect findings and reported them very differently and out of context to the subject.<br />
  Similar to how this poll is reported by ADF, there is no breakdown of subjects they asked by gender or age or ethnicity. Nor a list of the questions they asked.</p>
<p>     I think considering that the ADF  AND TVC have been resentful of whatever expense has been utilized for research into how discrimination impacts gay lives, or how gay people live DESPITE discrimination.<br />
 The ADF likes to think of themselves as impacted and victimized negatively by gay people.<br />
  It would be pretty difficult to manufacture evidence of that, where there is none. Hence, lying would have to substitute.<br />
  But they wouldn&#8217;t want to spend the money, and invest the time in the sorts of effective research or polling that would come closer to more accurate results.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96396</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96396</guid>
		<description>Tom,

Not all gay people are interested in marriage.  Some are, some aren&#039;t.

But we don&#039;t base civil rights on the number of people who will utilize them.

We don&#039;t look at the buses to see whether black folk are riding in the front or the back.  We don&#039;t quiz Jews on just how many are wearing yarmelkes.  We don&#039;t ask how many women really want to be corporate executives.  Rather we remove barriers to freedom and allow people to live how they see fit.

Or, rather, that&#039;s what lovers of freedom and equality do.   Folks who hate freedom and equality look for excuses to deny it to people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>Not all gay people are interested in marriage.  Some are, some aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But we don&#8217;t base civil rights on the number of people who will utilize them.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t look at the buses to see whether black folk are riding in the front or the back.  We don&#8217;t quiz Jews on just how many are wearing yarmelkes.  We don&#8217;t ask how many women really want to be corporate executives.  Rather we remove barriers to freedom and allow people to live how they see fit.</p>
<p>Or, rather, that&#8217;s what lovers of freedom and equality do.   Folks who hate freedom and equality look for excuses to deny it to people.</p>
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		<title>By: enough already</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96394</link>
		<dc:creator>enough already</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96394</guid>
		<description>Good point, PJB863.

Everytime I look at that absurd literature review out of California which is now cited everywhere to show that we are only 3.5% of the population (or was it 2% or was it 4% or was it???) I am reminded of just how few people actually understand anything about statistical analysis.

When I read about such bald-faced lies, I am reminded of the following:
Prov 14:5
5 A faithful witness will not lie, But a false witness speaks lies.

Guess that doesn&#039;t apply when you are fighting for &quot;Christian&quot; values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, PJB863.</p>
<p>Everytime I look at that absurd literature review out of California which is now cited everywhere to show that we are only 3.5% of the population (or was it 2% or was it 4% or was it???) I am reminded of just how few people actually understand anything about statistical analysis.</p>
<p>When I read about such bald-faced lies, I am reminded of the following:<br />
Prov 14:5<br />
5 A faithful witness will not lie, But a false witness speaks lies.</p>
<p>Guess that doesn&#8217;t apply when you are fighting for &#8220;Christian&#8221; values.</p>
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		<title>By: PJB863</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96393</link>
		<dc:creator>PJB863</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96393</guid>
		<description>When you&#039;re dealing with mainstream publications, Tim, you&#039;re absolutely right.  However, when you take that detour off into lunatic-fringeland, these things do get noticed.  This was on the website of our local hate group (as certified by the SPLC), the Illinois Family Institute as of today:  http://illinoisfamily.org/news/contentview.asp?c=35314.  Groups like IFI and others tend to exist in an alternative reality, where hard facts and metholodigies are a very minor consideration.  It&#039;s the conclusion that counts, no matter how convoluted the logic used to arrive at it.

Now that IFI has published this on its website, LaBarbera will likely pick up on this, because he&#039;s a buddy of theirs.  Also, the new group, the Illinois Defense of Marriage Initiative will also pick up and parrot this &quot;survey,&quot; as they try to place an advisory marriage referendum on a statewide ballot. 

Sooner or later, a reporter working at one of the mainstream publications will neglect to do his/her homework, and publish the results of this survey without checking the facts as you have done.  It may not happen for weeks or even months, but it will happen and suddenly, the ADF survey will gain some measure of credibility by being cited by the Chicago Tribune or the Sun-Times or some other publication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you&#8217;re dealing with mainstream publications, Tim, you&#8217;re absolutely right.  However, when you take that detour off into lunatic-fringeland, these things do get noticed.  This was on the website of our local hate group (as certified by the SPLC), the Illinois Family Institute as of today:  <a href="http://illinoisfamily.org/news/contentview.asp?c=35314" rel="nofollow">http://illinoisfamily.org/news/contentview.asp?c=35314</a>.  Groups like IFI and others tend to exist in an alternative reality, where hard facts and metholodigies are a very minor consideration.  It&#8217;s the conclusion that counts, no matter how convoluted the logic used to arrive at it.</p>
<p>Now that IFI has published this on its website, LaBarbera will likely pick up on this, because he&#8217;s a buddy of theirs.  Also, the new group, the Illinois Defense of Marriage Initiative will also pick up and parrot this &#8220;survey,&#8221; as they try to place an advisory marriage referendum on a statewide ballot. </p>
<p>Sooner or later, a reporter working at one of the mainstream publications will neglect to do his/her homework, and publish the results of this survey without checking the facts as you have done.  It may not happen for weeks or even months, but it will happen and suddenly, the ADF survey will gain some measure of credibility by being cited by the Chicago Tribune or the Sun-Times or some other publication.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom O\'Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96387</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom O\'Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96387</guid>
		<description>Gays themselves aren&#039;t interested in marriage.  In the places where they can do it, very few do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gays themselves aren&#8217;t interested in marriage.  In the places where they can do it, very few do.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben In Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96381</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben In Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96381</guid>
		<description>They are beyond embarassment.

Or irony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are beyond embarassment.</p>
<p>Or irony.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/06/17/34328/comment-page-1#comment-96379</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34328#comment-96379</guid>
		<description>I absolutely love the acronym for Public Opinion Strategies. POS is pretty accurate. (And I&#039;m not referring to &quot;Point Of Sale.&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely love the acronym for Public Opinion Strategies. POS is pretty accurate. (And I&#8217;m not referring to &#8220;Point Of Sale.&#8221;)</p>
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