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	<title>Comments on: LA Times joins &#8220;gay panic&#8221; smear of Lawrence King</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Donny D.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97878</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97878</guid>
		<description>Timothy, thank you for doing pushback on those media stories pandering to straight bigotry with their aggressor gayboy narrative.  I bought into some of that pseudo-journalism until I read your posts.

Now that you mention it, the media&#039;s story IS hoaky.  In a place like Oxnard, CA, how is any gay kid going to be able to come onto an unwilling straight guy repeatedly without getting the crap kicked out of him?  And especially if the young gay male aggressor is &quot;weird&quot; (seriously non-gender role conforming) as the defense&#039;s story funneled through uncritical journalists and interviewers has it?  This could only happen in a fantasy world lacking any real high school social context, having no sense of the intense homophobia and gender role enforcement that are typical in American secondary schools.  In reality, a kid as outrageous as King is alleged to be have been would have had very little freedom of action, and would have had enough trouble keeping himself safe if he simply minded his own business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy, thank you for doing pushback on those media stories pandering to straight bigotry with their aggressor gayboy narrative.  I bought into some of that pseudo-journalism until I read your posts.</p>
<p>Now that you mention it, the media&#8217;s story IS hoaky.  In a place like Oxnard, CA, how is any gay kid going to be able to come onto an unwilling straight guy repeatedly without getting the crap kicked out of him?  And especially if the young gay male aggressor is &#8220;weird&#8221; (seriously non-gender role conforming) as the defense&#8217;s story funneled through uncritical journalists and interviewers has it?  This could only happen in a fantasy world lacking any real high school social context, having no sense of the intense homophobia and gender role enforcement that are typical in American secondary schools.  In reality, a kid as outrageous as King is alleged to be have been would have had very little freedom of action, and would have had enough trouble keeping himself safe if he simply minded his own business.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97796</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97796</guid>
		<description>Oh, by the way...I remembered something. I was told by Lawrence&#039;s counselor that the make up wasn&#039;t any more than a little &#039;guy liner&#039; and clear gloss. And ONCE, to school, he wore a pair of suede boots with a 2 inch heels on them. They were from a thrift store.

  Prince dresses like that all the time. So do all the guys of Green Day.
As does Adam Lambert...if Lawrence had aspirations of being a rock singer (and he had talent as a singer), how he dressed isn&#039;t abnormal for a kid emulating such idols.

  Let&#039;s just say, that I&#039;m thinking perceptions are skewed to hell on this one. And because it&#039;s easier to bash LK, even after death, his detractors have little challenge to what they think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, by the way&#8230;I remembered something. I was told by Lawrence&#8217;s counselor that the make up wasn&#8217;t any more than a little &#8216;guy liner&#8217; and clear gloss. And ONCE, to school, he wore a pair of suede boots with a 2 inch heels on them. They were from a thrift store.</p>
<p>  Prince dresses like that all the time. So do all the guys of Green Day.<br />
As does Adam Lambert&#8230;if Lawrence had aspirations of being a rock singer (and he had talent as a singer), how he dressed isn&#8217;t abnormal for a kid emulating such idols.</p>
<p>  Let&#8217;s just say, that I&#8217;m thinking perceptions are skewed to hell on this one. And because it&#8217;s easier to bash LK, even after death, his detractors have little challenge to what they think.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurice Lacunza</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97759</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurice Lacunza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 16:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97759</guid>
		<description>The comment about living in the shelter jumped out at me also. Well written article. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comment about living in the shelter jumped out at me also. Well written article. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97756</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97756</guid>
		<description>Not just this writer for the LATimes, but also Newsweek was just as guilty of spreading this assumption as if it was evidence that King provoked McInerney.

   All of this dismisses the facts of OTHER children bullied by anti gay sentiment which led to tragedy. Not only does this sort of reporting keep reinforcing the stereotype that gay people are sexually aggressive, but it also advances that whatever violence was justifiable.

  I am so SICK and frustrated by this, that I could scream. I mean it.
  
  McInerny had a history of violence, had made threats and was ALLOWED, because of the apathy of the school to continue his assaults on King up to this final one.

    No one wants to be honest that when clergy, politicians, teachers, straight parents and nearly the entire information structure of a child&#039;s formative years keeps pushing these stereotypes of gays...

   To a hetero kid, interest will be violation, presence is threat and assault is warranted.
  And then humps like McInerny take their instruction to a fatal degree and those responsible for training him to devalue and assault a gay kid, retreat behind stereotypes and literally try to make King out to be the aggressor and bully.

W. T. F?!?!

  And now King is on trial...

   I met one of his teacher/counselors from Las Casitas. That was the group home that King lived in. She and I worked for twelve hours one day together and we got to the subject of Lawrence King who she knew very well.
 Her outrage at Newsweek&#039;s coverage made her write to the authors and the LATimes as well.

     She said that Lawrence was much smaller than McInerny and was the kind of kid that liked to make people laugh. He liked being entertaining, which he COULD be. She said he was SO cute, inimitably charming despite having virtually no real family. And that he was kind to the other kids. She said he sang beautifully and his musicality set him apart. That&#039;s what hurt the most, was losing a talent like that. She could see him having real success with it.  
   Lawrence would try to meet his tormentors with his arsenal of good humor. He was NOT aggressive because he wasn&#039;t big enough to fight most girls.
  It brought her to tears knowing that Lawrence was being treated this way in the press and in public discourse.
 I&#039;m hoping King&#039;s teachers, such as this young woman, will lend themselves to defense of his character. We can never take it for granted such a testimony shouldn&#039;t be necessary in a murder trial. Especially a murder trial involving a child victim. 

Damn, what do people think? This is the consequence of the extent a gay life is treated and taught to kids as having no value, or a menace.
  And no gay person, as you all know better than I do, could possibly know to what degree someone can take offense at you.
   Even the most innocuous interest like &#039;hi, how are you and what&#039;s your name?&#039; might make a real homophobe break your nose.
  Hence, interest being violation to such people.
   Because I see to what degree the anti gay take their perception of incursion and threat by gay people, I wish I could laugh at them for their lily livered hysterics.

     Because of this, I NEVER believe the &#039;gay panic defense&#039;. Especially when you&#039;re talking about people who way outnumbered, or physically outclassed their victim. Were already armed with a knife or gun, and typically sought out the victim on their own or were acquainted with them, and uses the element of surprise.
Which is essentially evident in this case too.
 It&#039;s no different from any other typical anti gay homicide profile.
Which is exactly why a fair jury shouldn&#039;t believe that gay panic defense, ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just this writer for the LATimes, but also Newsweek was just as guilty of spreading this assumption as if it was evidence that King provoked McInerney.</p>
<p>   All of this dismisses the facts of OTHER children bullied by anti gay sentiment which led to tragedy. Not only does this sort of reporting keep reinforcing the stereotype that gay people are sexually aggressive, but it also advances that whatever violence was justifiable.</p>
<p>  I am so SICK and frustrated by this, that I could scream. I mean it.</p>
<p>  McInerny had a history of violence, had made threats and was ALLOWED, because of the apathy of the school to continue his assaults on King up to this final one.</p>
<p>    No one wants to be honest that when clergy, politicians, teachers, straight parents and nearly the entire information structure of a child&#8217;s formative years keeps pushing these stereotypes of gays&#8230;</p>
<p>   To a hetero kid, interest will be violation, presence is threat and assault is warranted.<br />
  And then humps like McInerny take their instruction to a fatal degree and those responsible for training him to devalue and assault a gay kid, retreat behind stereotypes and literally try to make King out to be the aggressor and bully.</p>
<p>W. T. F?!?!</p>
<p>  And now King is on trial&#8230;</p>
<p>   I met one of his teacher/counselors from Las Casitas. That was the group home that King lived in. She and I worked for twelve hours one day together and we got to the subject of Lawrence King who she knew very well.<br />
 Her outrage at Newsweek&#8217;s coverage made her write to the authors and the LATimes as well.</p>
<p>     She said that Lawrence was much smaller than McInerny and was the kind of kid that liked to make people laugh. He liked being entertaining, which he COULD be. She said he was SO cute, inimitably charming despite having virtually no real family. And that he was kind to the other kids. She said he sang beautifully and his musicality set him apart. That&#8217;s what hurt the most, was losing a talent like that. She could see him having real success with it.<br />
   Lawrence would try to meet his tormentors with his arsenal of good humor. He was NOT aggressive because he wasn&#8217;t big enough to fight most girls.<br />
  It brought her to tears knowing that Lawrence was being treated this way in the press and in public discourse.<br />
 I&#8217;m hoping King&#8217;s teachers, such as this young woman, will lend themselves to defense of his character. We can never take it for granted such a testimony shouldn&#8217;t be necessary in a murder trial. Especially a murder trial involving a child victim. </p>
<p>Damn, what do people think? This is the consequence of the extent a gay life is treated and taught to kids as having no value, or a menace.<br />
  And no gay person, as you all know better than I do, could possibly know to what degree someone can take offense at you.<br />
   Even the most innocuous interest like &#8216;hi, how are you and what&#8217;s your name?&#8217; might make a real homophobe break your nose.<br />
  Hence, interest being violation to such people.<br />
   Because I see to what degree the anti gay take their perception of incursion and threat by gay people, I wish I could laugh at them for their lily livered hysterics.</p>
<p>     Because of this, I NEVER believe the &#8216;gay panic defense&#8217;. Especially when you&#8217;re talking about people who way outnumbered, or physically outclassed their victim. Were already armed with a knife or gun, and typically sought out the victim on their own or were acquainted with them, and uses the element of surprise.<br />
Which is essentially evident in this case too.<br />
 It&#8217;s no different from any other typical anti gay homicide profile.<br />
Which is exactly why a fair jury shouldn&#8217;t believe that gay panic defense, ever.</p>
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		<title>By: esurience</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97755</link>
		<dc:creator>esurience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97755</guid>
		<description>The way the media reports things, they always make sure to put the word &#039;alleged&#039; in front of a perpetrator of a crime, but if a victim is accused of doing something.. well that just gets written down as if it&#039;s actually a plain fact.

The news article presented &quot;King&#039;s sexual advances&quot; as an independent fact, not as just something the defense was claiming.

When you say a fact, someone has to be asserting it as true. It&#039;s either the author of the news article that is saying it&#039;s true, or it is a person being quoted or paraphrased. But if you&#039;re going to paraphrase, you better use words like &#039;claim&#039; or &#039;alleged&#039;, unless you&#039;ve come to your own determination that what is being claimed or alleged is actually true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way the media reports things, they always make sure to put the word &#8216;alleged&#8217; in front of a perpetrator of a crime, but if a victim is accused of doing something.. well that just gets written down as if it&#8217;s actually a plain fact.</p>
<p>The news article presented &#8220;King&#8217;s sexual advances&#8221; as an independent fact, not as just something the defense was claiming.</p>
<p>When you say a fact, someone has to be asserting it as true. It&#8217;s either the author of the news article that is saying it&#8217;s true, or it is a person being quoted or paraphrased. But if you&#8217;re going to paraphrase, you better use words like &#8216;claim&#8217; or &#8216;alleged&#8217;, unless you&#8217;ve come to your own determination that what is being claimed or alleged is actually true.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97745</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 12:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97745</guid>
		<description>Of course Dave is right. Look at the grammatical construction the writer of the news piece is using. It&#039;s called a précis: she is summarizing, without comment, what the attorneys are telling her. She uses direct quotes to clarify the argument. And of course it&#039;s about McInerey as he&#039;s the person on trial. No doubt there will be stories about King later.

Moral indignation is seductive, I know, but should be resisted by anyone expecting to be taken seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Dave is right. Look at the grammatical construction the writer of the news piece is using. It&#8217;s called a précis: she is summarizing, without comment, what the attorneys are telling her. She uses direct quotes to clarify the argument. And of course it&#8217;s about McInerey as he&#8217;s the person on trial. No doubt there will be stories about King later.</p>
<p>Moral indignation is seductive, I know, but should be resisted by anyone expecting to be taken seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: tiqueboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97729</link>
		<dc:creator>tiqueboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97729</guid>
		<description>Look, if he had shot him once and then &quot;snapped back&quot; to reality that might be one thing, however, after he EXECUTED this poor boy, he stood up and shot him again in the head. I can think of NO EXCUSE for this. Gay Panic is bullshit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, if he had shot him once and then &#8220;snapped back&#8221; to reality that might be one thing, however, after he EXECUTED this poor boy, he stood up and shot him again in the head. I can think of NO EXCUSE for this. Gay Panic is bullshit!</p>
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		<title>By: XiaoYuan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97728</link>
		<dc:creator>XiaoYuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 02:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97728</guid>
		<description>Keep up the good work Tim.  About time someone spoke up on behalf of Lawrence King.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep up the good work Tim.  About time someone spoke up on behalf of Lawrence King.</p>
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		<title>By: TampaZeke</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97717</link>
		<dc:creator>TampaZeke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97717</guid>
		<description>Hear, hear Timothy.

Brilliantly presented!

The LA Times and Saillant should be ashamed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear, hear Timothy.</p>
<p>Brilliantly presented!</p>
<p>The LA Times and Saillant should be ashamed.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/07/05/34822/comment-page-1#comment-97716</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=34822#comment-97716</guid>
		<description>Regardless of how relentless and inappropriate King&#039;s advances may have been, violence, or any kind of mortal harm, is not warranted at all.
True... poor, tormented McInerney may not have been equipped to handle such interaction, and it could have indeed been a combination of an innate homophobia and a passionate lapse of judgment, but despite all that, he still pulled a gun on the damn kid.
That definitely deserves some kind of punishment.
You don&#039;t take away someone&#039;s life when they bother you, you go to someone for help, at the VERY least.

Perhaps off topic..but this is why so many more purposeful hate crimes occur; schools do not do a good job of educating their kids on how to handle sexual harassment, especially of the homosexual kind (though there should be no difference in handling).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of how relentless and inappropriate King&#8217;s advances may have been, violence, or any kind of mortal harm, is not warranted at all.<br />
True&#8230; poor, tormented McInerney may not have been equipped to handle such interaction, and it could have indeed been a combination of an innate homophobia and a passionate lapse of judgment, but despite all that, he still pulled a gun on the damn kid.<br />
That definitely deserves some kind of punishment.<br />
You don&#8217;t take away someone&#8217;s life when they bother you, you go to someone for help, at the VERY least.</p>
<p>Perhaps off topic..but this is why so many more purposeful hate crimes occur; schools do not do a good job of educating their kids on how to handle sexual harassment, especially of the homosexual kind (though there should be no difference in handling).</p>
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