Comments on: Maggie Gallagher Attends Staged Reading of “8″ In New York

By: cd

cd — Sun, 25 Sep 2011 22:45:04 +0000

I find it interesting that Maggie is so comfortable among a lot of gay people.

I can think of reason why that might be….

By: Erin

Erin — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 03:21:12 +0000

Wow, this thread went way all over the place with the whole “classist/ not classist” argument. Why can’t we just change the language from “classless” to “rude” and all agree that Maggie’s behavior was just plain rude, and say “oops, I didn’t mean to imply she was of a lower class and that’s why she was acting like an inferior human being, I meant she was just being rude.” Can’t we all just get along. Manners pretty much stretch across all socio-economic classes.

By: occono

occono — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:16:53 +0000

….If Brad Pitt did it it’d definitely make the news. He would be mocked for it.

By: Lucrece

Lucrece — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:21:44 +0000

I never defended honor killings or VERIFIABLE harms being criticized. There’s plenty of valid traits in Maggie to be criticized. Putting her bare feet on a rail and calling her uneducated/white trash/fat slob and whatever otehr myriad insults gay men feel like calling her on frivolous grounds while pretending to be the “compassionate” side is what’s at issue.

In fact, I brought the examples with Japan and abuses against women as a reason why we don’t give a flying crap about sensibilities, since just because they’re popular doesn’t make them valid. Homophobic sensibilities thus far have been pretty popular, but we don’t buy them just because they are.

I’m highly suspicious that if it were just any regular guy — hell, if it were Brad Pitt airing his feet or eating at a theater– all this mock indignance at “lack of respect for the system and social etiquette! *pearl-clutching*” would even exist.

People are fixating into silly mannerisms and using them to vent pent up anger towards the woman. It’s not okay. Not for even Maggie.

By: Priya Lynn

Priya Lynn — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:55:49 +0000

Scott, I’m not going to get into a long abstract debate with you. Cultural acceptance is partial and conditional based on harm, its not an all or nothing thing, one can accept parts of it and that’s all I’m going to say about that.

Far from considering myself an expert on this I’ve said I’m on the fence, I don’t know whether or not Maggie’s feet on the rail are acceptable but I’m inclined to agree with you and think not. So spare me the faux victim stance.

By: Scott L.

Scott L. — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:48:18 +0000

In what way have I derided Lucrece? I’ve only asked to clarify her position . I have not made any value judgment as to her own self, just her argument that we’re supposed to respect every differing culture. And what does that respect entail? Complete acceptance, or only partial? And if only partial, why? Each part of a culture is is informed by all the rest. One cannot value the culture of Somalia and say that it has an equal footing to ours if you object to a major aspect of it, such as female mutilation. It is INTRINSIC to their culture.

On a personal note, for the most part I ignore your postings, you are smug and self-satisfied. You have made it abundantly clear you consider yourself the go to expert on every subject ever broached here.

By: Priya Lynn

Priya Lynn — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:13:10 +0000

Yes, Scott, when you claim Lucrece’s arguments are the same as supporting honour killings and female genital mutilation you’re being petty and cheap. I’m not sure whether or not that’s a classist attitude and I don’t really care. The degree to which I’ve derided you is a great deal less than the degree to which you derided Lucrece yet somehow you think its okay for you to deride her but not me to deride you – that’s rather hypocritical.

By: Scott L.

Scott L. — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:05:56 +0000

Priya, so I’m petty and I’m cheap? Isn’t that making a value judgement? Isn’t that a “classist” attitude? Deriding me personally doesn’t give you the high ground that you think you’ve claimed in this thread.

By: Priya Lynn

Priya Lynn — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:46:15 +0000

Scott, no one here has said that all cultures and every aspect of every culture is worthy of respect, so yes, that is a straw man. Lucrece said nothing about respecting honour killings or female genital mutilation and certainly didn’t imply she respected those so you trying to pin that on her because of her arguments is cheap and petty.

A lot more diseases than the common cold are transferred via hands and contact with mucous membranes. I’m not a doctor, but if you’re suggesting more serious diseases are passed on by contact with feet than are passed on by contact with hands I don’t buy that in the slightest. What I have heard from medical professionals and what you should know to be intuitively correct is that pathogens transfer easily from mucous membranes (hence many diseases are sexually transmitted but less easily transmitted by skin to skin contact). Hands come into contract with mucous membranes many, many times per day and feet very rarely so. To get freaked out about feet on a railing and not hands on a railing is far more about style and taste than it is any objective concern over the transfer of disease.

I’m inclined to agree with you that Gallagher’s behavior is unacceptable. But I have a nagging doubt about that as I wonder if it isn’t a bit arbritrary and certainly to some degree it is.

By: Scott L.

Scott L. — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:12:03 +0000

Priya, I don’t think it’s a straw man argument at all. It wasn’t aimed at your comments. It was meant to address the attitude that somehow ALL cultures, and by extension EVERY aspect of that culture, is worthy of respect. Lucrece has implied that expecting others to behave in a manner that is considered acceptable in the United States is “classist”. I strongly disagree. If a person has been told that what they do is considered impolite and they continue to engage in that behavior, then yes, I DO look down on them! And no one here can pretend that Ms. Gallagher doesn’t know that her behavior is not acceptable!

And there is a difference between passing on a cold and passing on a fungal infection that very difficult to deal with.