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	<title>Comments on: NC Marriage Ban Sponsor Can&#8217;t Explain His Own Position</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: JFE</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107550</link>
		<dc:creator>JFE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107550</guid>
		<description>Just to be clear here, the &quot;gays die 20 years earlier&quot; complete nonsense comes from a Paul Cameron &quot;study&quot; where he looked at obituaries in gay newspapers during the height of the AIDS crisis and averaged out the ages to get 41.  In response, we should do a study of the next 7 days of CNN reports of people&#039;s deaths, average out the ages, and report those as the dastardly life expectancy of heterosexuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to be clear here, the &#8220;gays die 20 years earlier&#8221; complete nonsense comes from a Paul Cameron &#8220;study&#8221; where he looked at obituaries in gay newspapers during the height of the AIDS crisis and averaged out the ages to get 41.  In response, we should do a study of the next 7 days of CNN reports of people&#8217;s deaths, average out the ages, and report those as the dastardly life expectancy of heterosexuals.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107469</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107469</guid>
		<description>Hot damn, Priya, I love it when we agree !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hot damn, Priya, I love it when we agree !!</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107454</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107454</guid>
		<description>Yes, I think that&#039;s exactly it, Andrew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I think that&#8217;s exactly it, Andrew.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107446</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107446</guid>
		<description>@Priya - it&#039;s quite sad - underneath it is an assumption that what he&#039;s saying is as true and obvious as &quot;the sky is blue&quot;.  He doesn&#039;t even see it as bigotry and never will -- and in that sense it almost isn&#039;t... bigotry in my mind usually requires an element of choice on the part of the person holding the idea.  This guy doesn&#039;t hate gay people.  He can&#039;t get that far.  He&#039;s so far out of the loop that he&#039;s not even conscious of it.  It&#039;s like discussing snow with someone who&#039;s never seen winter.  He has his beliefs and is not longer open to new input.  And, frankly, he&#039;s not very bright.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Priya &#8211; it&#8217;s quite sad &#8211; underneath it is an assumption that what he&#8217;s saying is as true and obvious as &#8220;the sky is blue&#8221;.  He doesn&#8217;t even see it as bigotry and never will &#8212; and in that sense it almost isn&#8217;t&#8230; bigotry in my mind usually requires an element of choice on the part of the person holding the idea.  This guy doesn&#8217;t hate gay people.  He can&#8217;t get that far.  He&#8217;s so far out of the loop that he&#8217;s not even conscious of it.  It&#8217;s like discussing snow with someone who&#8217;s never seen winter.  He has his beliefs and is not longer open to new input.  And, frankly, he&#8217;s not very bright.</p>
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		<title>By: tiqueboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107432</link>
		<dc:creator>tiqueboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107432</guid>
		<description>This is the excact reason that the proponents of prop 8 do not want the tapes released. they can not say how ssm affects &quot;traditional&quot; marriage. What a tool!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the excact reason that the proponents of prop 8 do not want the tapes released. they can not say how ssm affects &#8220;traditional&#8221; marriage. What a tool!</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107380</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107380</guid>
		<description>It didn&#039;t seem long to me, other Fred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It didn&#8217;t seem long to me, other Fred.</p>
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		<title>By: Other Fred in the UK</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107378</link>
		<dc:creator>Other Fred in the UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107378</guid>
		<description>That interview is a brilliant demonstration of the hollowness of the arguments for banning same-sex marriage. It does however have one fatal flaw, its nearly a quarter of an hour long. How do you persuade people to watch it in today&#039;s sound-bite culture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That interview is a brilliant demonstration of the hollowness of the arguments for banning same-sex marriage. It does however have one fatal flaw, its nearly a quarter of an hour long. How do you persuade people to watch it in today&#8217;s sound-bite culture?</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107377</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 17:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107377</guid>
		<description>That a doctor should think that life expectancy or health status is rightful as a means of marriage discrimination is a disgrace.

 That&#039;s he&#039;s factually wrong and cannot put context to his statements, means he&#039;s fairly incompetent as a doctor when it comes to public health and a serious discussion on it.
 I&#039;m sick and tired of the anti gay trying to change up standards of marriage that don&#039;t apply or aren&#039;t legal ANYWHERE for anyone.

   And trying to play as if gay people don&#039;t meet the already well established standards set forth as well.
And they are literally making a federal case out of such non existent or un Constitutional laws.
  They don&#039;t even want to see how, if carried to the full extent of their arguments, just how many heteros would be qualified for the same discrimination.
Which is why it clearly only follows that the discrimination has to be as equal as the rights and protections must be.
Obviously us smarter folks have figured that out, and the anti gay hate it that we have and we won&#039;t shut up about it.

  As we&#039;ve seen with courts of law, or in public forums they don&#039;t control, the anti gay feel put upon if their lack of facts, logic or legal realities is revealed.
  They see themselves victimized, rather than for having the bigoted arguments they support.
  It&#039;s satisfying to see such irrationality cornered, but the response to it is to punish gay people, rather than temper their intellectual dishonesty, with honesty and reason.

  This doctor IS a lawmaker after all, however cowardly, he has the means to be very spiteful.
And in fact, look what DID happen.

    I&#039;m not saying any one of us shouldn&#039;t stop spotlighting such bigotry and cowardice for what it is, but it sure angers me that this shit heel can get away with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That a doctor should think that life expectancy or health status is rightful as a means of marriage discrimination is a disgrace.</p>
<p> That&#8217;s he&#8217;s factually wrong and cannot put context to his statements, means he&#8217;s fairly incompetent as a doctor when it comes to public health and a serious discussion on it.<br />
 I&#8217;m sick and tired of the anti gay trying to change up standards of marriage that don&#8217;t apply or aren&#8217;t legal ANYWHERE for anyone.</p>
<p>   And trying to play as if gay people don&#8217;t meet the already well established standards set forth as well.<br />
And they are literally making a federal case out of such non existent or un Constitutional laws.<br />
  They don&#8217;t even want to see how, if carried to the full extent of their arguments, just how many heteros would be qualified for the same discrimination.<br />
Which is why it clearly only follows that the discrimination has to be as equal as the rights and protections must be.<br />
Obviously us smarter folks have figured that out, and the anti gay hate it that we have and we won&#8217;t shut up about it.</p>
<p>  As we&#8217;ve seen with courts of law, or in public forums they don&#8217;t control, the anti gay feel put upon if their lack of facts, logic or legal realities is revealed.<br />
  They see themselves victimized, rather than for having the bigoted arguments they support.<br />
  It&#8217;s satisfying to see such irrationality cornered, but the response to it is to punish gay people, rather than temper their intellectual dishonesty, with honesty and reason.</p>
<p>  This doctor IS a lawmaker after all, however cowardly, he has the means to be very spiteful.<br />
And in fact, look what DID happen.</p>
<p>    I&#8217;m not saying any one of us shouldn&#8217;t stop spotlighting such bigotry and cowardice for what it is, but it sure angers me that this shit heel can get away with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107366</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 17:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107366</guid>
		<description>Andrew said &quot;Sadly, the fact that he stayed on the call so long means that his ears are closed – he can’t see Signorile’s logic, and he doesn’t have the good decency to have the “aha” moment and discover shame. If he did, he’d be off that call like a shot. He just sees it all as common sense.&quot;.

Right Andrew.  I think to someone like Forrestor it goes without saying that he&#039;s right and Signorile is just being mean by making it sound as though Forrestor is wrong. Forrestor can&#039;t say why Signorile&#039;s logic is wrong, he just thinks its unfair to be questioned on the rationale behind his bigotry - Signorile should just passively accept whatever position Forrestor puts forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew said &#8220;Sadly, the fact that he stayed on the call so long means that his ears are closed – he can’t see Signorile’s logic, and he doesn’t have the good decency to have the “aha” moment and discover shame. If he did, he’d be off that call like a shot. He just sees it all as common sense.&#8221;.</p>
<p>Right Andrew.  I think to someone like Forrestor it goes without saying that he&#8217;s right and Signorile is just being mean by making it sound as though Forrestor is wrong. Forrestor can&#8217;t say why Signorile&#8217;s logic is wrong, he just thinks its unfair to be questioned on the rationale behind his bigotry &#8211; Signorile should just passively accept whatever position Forrestor puts forward.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Hlavac</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/09/28/37479/comment-page-1#comment-107364</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Hlavac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=37479#comment-107364</guid>
		<description>You know, every time I think of this claim that we die 20 years younger than our hetero counterparts, I wonder how such a study could even be figured out? -- people die at all ages; even kids die, many of them murdered by their parents even. The FRC has this figure  of &quot;gays die at 41&quot; in their mush -- and I&#039;m 53, does this mean I&#039;m 12 years beyond my expiration date? And then I think of the 89 year old gay guy I tend. I think too of the wrinkle rooms, those gay bars filled with the over 60 set. I think also of the newly springing up gay retirement homes. It&#039;s a bizarre claim. No one keeps track of &quot;gay&quot; deaths. Not every gay death results in an obit in the gay press; I have never seen an obit in the regular news that listed &quot;gay&quot; or something. So where could they get any numbers? That they cling ferociously to the fiction shows how strange they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, every time I think of this claim that we die 20 years younger than our hetero counterparts, I wonder how such a study could even be figured out? &#8212; people die at all ages; even kids die, many of them murdered by their parents even. The FRC has this figure  of &#8220;gays die at 41&#8243; in their mush &#8212; and I&#8217;m 53, does this mean I&#8217;m 12 years beyond my expiration date? And then I think of the 89 year old gay guy I tend. I think too of the wrinkle rooms, those gay bars filled with the over 60 set. I think also of the newly springing up gay retirement homes. It&#8217;s a bizarre claim. No one keeps track of &#8220;gay&#8221; deaths. Not every gay death results in an obit in the gay press; I have never seen an obit in the regular news that listed &#8220;gay&#8221; or something. So where could they get any numbers? That they cling ferociously to the fiction shows how strange they are.</p>
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