Comments on: Cardinal George’s self-delusional narcissism http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/28/40132 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:37:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/28/40132/comment-page-1#comment-113340 Timothy Kincaid Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:15:18 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=40132#comment-113340 Kevin, I believe the city councilman involved in the negotiation is both gay and a member of that particular parish. Kevin,

I believe the city councilman involved in the negotiation is both gay and a member of that particular parish.

]]> By: Kevin http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/28/40132/comment-page-1#comment-113338 Kevin Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:48:16 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=40132#comment-113338 There is a very vehement history of anti-Catholicism in the United States that the KKK was a part of. Where I think Cardinal George jumps the shark here is that the organizers of Gay Pride in Chicago are nothing like the KKK and haven't displayed any behavior that could be interpreted as antagonistic towards Catholics. It bears repeating, that while the Cardinal was grabbing all the headlines by being a divisive ninny that the organizers of the Pride Parade and the representatives of the Roman Catholic Church along the parade route worked out an arrangement that was agreeable to both sides (moving the parade start from 10AM to Noon). Among these parties there was no vitriol, name-calling or hatred expressed. In fact, the particular parish involved has a reputation as being friendly towards LGBT people and stated that their concern was not with the parade being a Pride Parade, but with the impact of a large crowd. I can guarantee that in the 1920's the KKK would not have sat down with the parish counsel of the local Catholic parish and work out any agreement. The Cardinal's statements make no sense because there is no sense to be had in his statements. He has purposefully misrepresented what actually occurred. I think that is called lying. This is just another attempt on the part of this particular cardinal (and others) to create a false dichotomy: Catholic vs. Gay. In reality there are many, many LGBT Catholics, some of whom might be organizing the parade in question. There is a very vehement history of anti-Catholicism in the United States that the KKK was a part of. Where I think Cardinal George jumps the shark here is that the organizers of Gay Pride in Chicago are nothing like the KKK and haven’t displayed any behavior that could be interpreted as antagonistic towards Catholics.

It bears repeating, that while the Cardinal was grabbing all the headlines by being a divisive ninny that the organizers of the Pride Parade and the representatives of the Roman Catholic Church along the parade route worked out an arrangement that was agreeable to both sides (moving the parade start from 10AM to Noon). Among these parties there was no vitriol, name-calling or hatred expressed. In fact, the particular parish involved has a reputation as being friendly towards LGBT people and stated that their concern was not with the parade being a Pride Parade, but with the impact of a large crowd.

I can guarantee that in the 1920′s the KKK would not have sat down with the parish counsel of the local Catholic parish and work out any agreement. The Cardinal’s statements make no sense because there is no sense to be had in his statements. He has purposefully misrepresented what actually occurred. I think that is called lying.

This is just another attempt on the part of this particular cardinal (and others) to create a false dichotomy: Catholic vs. Gay. In reality there are many, many LGBT Catholics, some of whom might be organizing the parade in question.

]]> By: Jim Burroway http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/28/40132/comment-page-1#comment-113290 Jim Burroway Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:12:10 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=40132#comment-113290 I would have to go with Lynn David here. I grew up Catholic in the Midwest/Appalachian area, and for as long as I can remember, I recall talk about the KKK to be as anti-Catholic as anti-Black. The talk in our area was about the KKK's ascendency in the 1920s. Supposedly, the Klan marched against the laying of a cornerstone for a Catholic church in our area, but in the multiple re-tellings, I have no idea the actual veracity of the memory. But it was, and may still be among older Catholics, a very deeply ingrained association between the Klan and anti-Catholicism among Catholics in the Midwest. This is what makes Cardinal George's comments so incendiary. He is intentionally tapping into a very strong historical zeitgeist among Catholics by tying the supposedly "anti-Catholic" gay community to the the KKK. He knows full well how strongly his evoking the KKK resonates among Catholics who remember their grandparents talking about the 1920s. I would have to go with Lynn David here. I grew up Catholic in the Midwest/Appalachian area, and for as long as I can remember, I recall talk about the KKK to be as anti-Catholic as anti-Black. The talk in our area was about the KKK’s ascendency in the 1920s. Supposedly, the Klan marched against the laying of a cornerstone for a Catholic church in our area, but in the multiple re-tellings, I have no idea the actual veracity of the memory. But it was, and may still be among older Catholics, a very deeply ingrained association between the Klan and anti-Catholicism among Catholics in the Midwest.

This is what makes Cardinal George’s comments so incendiary. He is intentionally tapping into a very strong historical zeitgeist among Catholics by tying the supposedly “anti-Catholic” gay community to the the KKK. He knows full well how strongly his evoking the KKK resonates among Catholics who remember their grandparents talking about the 1920s.

]]> By: Lynn David http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/28/40132/comment-page-1#comment-113273 Lynn David Thu, 29 Dec 2011 00:42:00 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=40132#comment-113273 I agree that most would not associate the KKK with Catholic oppression. But to some Catholics in certain areas the problems started for their ancestors in the 1840s with the Know-Nothings and revived again with the KKK. I agree that most would not associate the KKK with Catholic oppression. But to some Catholics in certain areas the problems started for their ancestors in the 1840s with the Know-Nothings and revived again with the KKK.

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/28/40132/comment-page-1#comment-113271 Timothy Kincaid Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:23:05 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=40132#comment-113271 Lynn David, True, the KKK was anti-Catholic, especially in its second incarnation. But I think that we can agree that this position is not what leaps to mind when one thinks of KKK imagery. They were also anti-gay... but I don't think that we get to claim that any anti-gay organization has "invited an obvious comparison" because of that common attribute. Lynn David,

True, the KKK was anti-Catholic, especially in its second incarnation. But I think that we can agree that this position is not what leaps to mind when one thinks of KKK imagery.

They were also anti-gay… but I don’t think that we get to claim that any anti-gay organization has “invited an obvious comparison” because of that common attribute.

]]> By: Lynn David http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/12/28/40132/comment-page-1#comment-113265 Lynn David Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:31:35 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=40132#comment-113265 I'll just point this out. Here in Indiana back in the 1920s the Klan was very powerful; so much so they even elected a governor. There were instances of anti-Catholic violence. Two of which I know from the accounts of first-hand witnesses. The KKK tried to burn down the oldest Catholic church in the state (idiots forgot it was brick) and robed KKK members would drive around at night in the areas of Catholic farming communities (around country Catholic churches) firing weapons. George shouldn't have voiced such a comparison; but it is not well that we should forget history either. I’ll just point this out. Here in Indiana back in the 1920s the Klan was very powerful; so much so they even elected a governor. There were instances of anti-Catholic violence. Two of which I know from the accounts of first-hand witnesses. The KKK tried to burn down the oldest Catholic church in the state (idiots forgot it was brick) and robed KKK members would drive around at night in the areas of Catholic farming communities (around country Catholic churches) firing weapons.

George shouldn’t have voiced such a comparison; but it is not well that we should forget history either.

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