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	<title>Comments on: Christie: We Should Have Put African-American&#8217;s Civil Rights To A Vote</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: coram nobis</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115988</link>
		<dc:creator>coram nobis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115988</guid>
		<description>Mitchell Young, Ben in Oakland --

Prop. 14&#039;s state constitutional amendment wasn&#039;t a pre-existing right, but created. Trouble was, it clashed with the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the one about no state denying due process or equal protection of the law. There&#039;s also that bit in the 9th about not construing the Constitution to deny or disparage other rights. FYI.

And as a matter of commercial rights, Justice Douglas&#039; concurrence in &lt;i&gt;Mulkey&lt;/i&gt; noted that segregation tended to stifle credit in &quot;mixed&quot; neighborhoods. There was also this back-and-forth:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;[E]ach time we citizens of this country lose any of the rights that go with the ownership of property, we are moving that much closer to a centralized government in which ultimately the right to own property would be denied.&quot;  

That apparently is a common view. It overlooks several things. First, the right to own or lease property is already denied to many solely because of the pigment of their skin; they are, indeed, under the control of a few who determine where and how the colored people shall live and what the nature of our cities will be. Second, the agencies that are zoning the cities along racial lines are state licensees.

Zoning is a state and municipal function. ... When the State leaves that function to private agencies or institutions which are licensees and which practice racial discrimination and zone our cities into white and black belts or white and black ghettoes, it suffers a governmental function to be performed under private auspices in a way the State itself may not act. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mitchell Young, Ben in Oakland &#8211;</p>
<p>Prop. 14&#8242;s state constitutional amendment wasn&#8217;t a pre-existing right, but created. Trouble was, it clashed with the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the one about no state denying due process or equal protection of the law. There&#8217;s also that bit in the 9th about not construing the Constitution to deny or disparage other rights. FYI.</p>
<p>And as a matter of commercial rights, Justice Douglas&#8217; concurrence in <i>Mulkey</i> noted that segregation tended to stifle credit in &#8220;mixed&#8221; neighborhoods. There was also this back-and-forth:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;[E]ach time we citizens of this country lose any of the rights that go with the ownership of property, we are moving that much closer to a centralized government in which ultimately the right to own property would be denied.&#8221;  </p>
<p>That apparently is a common view. It overlooks several things. First, the right to own or lease property is already denied to many solely because of the pigment of their skin; they are, indeed, under the control of a few who determine where and how the colored people shall live and what the nature of our cities will be. Second, the agencies that are zoning the cities along racial lines are state licensees.</p>
<p>Zoning is a state and municipal function. &#8230; When the State leaves that function to private agencies or institutions which are licensees and which practice racial discrimination and zone our cities into white and black belts or white and black ghettoes, it suffers a governmental function to be performed under private auspices in a way the State itself may not act. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115970</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115970</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve decided to reconsider and remove Mark F. from moderation. I am nevertheless wary of &lt;em&gt;anyone&lt;/em&gt; who states an opinion and then invites people to attack him. That&#039;s not what this forum is for. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve decided to reconsider and remove Mark F. from moderation. I am nevertheless wary of <em>anyone</em> who states an opinion and then invites people to attack him. That&#8217;s not what this forum is for. </p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115969</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115969</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Why do you refer to it as the “so-called ‘civil rights’ movement”?&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The only reason I can think of is that he doesn&#039;t support the idea of equality for black people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Why do you refer to it as the “so-called ‘civil rights’ movement”?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The only reason I can think of is that he doesn&#8217;t support the idea of equality for black people.</p>
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		<title>By: Donny D.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115967</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115967</guid>
		<description>Mitchell Young wrote,
&lt;blockquote&gt;That civil right was taken away from us by the courts and absurd overreaching of the so-called ‘civil rights’ movement.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why do you refer to it as the &quot;so-called &#039;civil rights&#039; movement&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mitchell Young wrote,</p>
<blockquote><p>That civil right was taken away from us by the courts and absurd overreaching of the so-called ‘civil rights’ movement.</p></blockquote>
<p>Why do you refer to it as the &#8220;so-called &#8216;civil rights&#8217; movement&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Hogan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115942</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115942</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s no need to go back to the sixties -- or even the nineties -- for examples of a majority of people in a state voting in favor of racism: as recently as 2004, the people of Alabama voted to keep language in their state constitution mandating racial segregation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/30/usa.schoolsworldwide

Of course, the law is unenforceable (made so by Brown v. BOE) -- but the language remains on the books to this day (http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/04/alabama_senate_votes_to_remove.html).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s no need to go back to the sixties &#8212; or even the nineties &#8212; for examples of a majority of people in a state voting in favor of racism: as recently as 2004, the people of Alabama voted to keep language in their state constitution mandating racial segregation.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/30/usa.schoolsworldwide" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/30/usa.schoolsworldwide</a></p>
<p>Of course, the law is unenforceable (made so by Brown v. BOE) &#8212; but the language remains on the books to this day (<a href="http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/04/alabama_senate_votes_to_remove.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/04/alabama_senate_votes_to_remove.html</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115937</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115937</guid>
		<description>Maybe because it was neither civil nor right?

BTW, that civil right wasn&#039;t&#039;t technically taken away. What was taken away was the right do do it publicly and expect the gummint to support you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe because it was neither civil nor right?</p>
<p>BTW, that civil right wasn&#8217;t't technically taken away. What was taken away was the right do do it publicly and expect the gummint to support you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mitchell Young</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115935</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchell Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115935</guid>
		<description>Coram Nobis,

You are absolutely right -- Californian voters voted for the civil right of owners to sell to, lease to, rent to, who they wanted. That civil right was taken away from us by the courts and absurd overreaching of the so-called &#039;civil rights&#039; movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coram Nobis,</p>
<p>You are absolutely right &#8212; Californian voters voted for the civil right of owners to sell to, lease to, rent to, who they wanted. That civil right was taken away from us by the courts and absurd overreaching of the so-called &#8216;civil rights&#8217; movement.</p>
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		<title>By: mike/</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115930</link>
		<dc:creator>mike/</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 01:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115930</guid>
		<description>in effect, what this large man said is, &quot;Let&#039;s have a vote on slavery!&quot;

he wouldn&#039;t see it that way, of course, but some one explain how certain states really would not consider a got like this to be a vote on slavery!

i think Abraham Lincoln, if he were alive today, would NOT be a Republican...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in effect, what this large man said is, &#8220;Let&#8217;s have a vote on slavery!&#8221;</p>
<p>he wouldn&#8217;t see it that way, of course, but some one explain how certain states really would not consider a got like this to be a vote on slavery!</p>
<p>i think Abraham Lincoln, if he were alive today, would NOT be a Republican&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115922</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115922</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Kevin, you get that at restaurants a lot. Do you remember that more recent Denny&#039;s incident up in Maryland. I think Denny&#039;s had to pay out a fat settlement in that one. 

Once, while driving through rural Alabama late one night on my way to Pensacola from Atlanta my friend and I stopped at a Waffle House. Before we could even get out of the parking lot we were yelled at, threatened, and called &quot;fags.&quot; Apparently, whereeverthehell we were in bubba-fuck Alabama the locals had decided that this particular Waffle House was the Black Waffle House and the one on the next exit up was the White Waffle House. Needless to say, we left in a hurry and elected to just get snacks at the next 24 hour gas station we found.

Also, I worked at a couple of mom &amp; pop places in Atlanta where the rest of the wait-staff imposed a &quot;don&#039;t give me the black table&quot; policy. While there was no policy of discrimination the staff created a defacto one due to the untrue perception that black people tip less. I thought they were fools, however, and took every &quot;dark&quot; table I could. My tips never suffered &amp; I ended up with a few regulars to-boot.
 
Anyway; yeah, there is still racial discrimination in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Kevin, you get that at restaurants a lot. Do you remember that more recent Denny&#8217;s incident up in Maryland. I think Denny&#8217;s had to pay out a fat settlement in that one. </p>
<p>Once, while driving through rural Alabama late one night on my way to Pensacola from Atlanta my friend and I stopped at a Waffle House. Before we could even get out of the parking lot we were yelled at, threatened, and called &#8220;fags.&#8221; Apparently, whereeverthehell we were in bubba-fuck Alabama the locals had decided that this particular Waffle House was the Black Waffle House and the one on the next exit up was the White Waffle House. Needless to say, we left in a hurry and elected to just get snacks at the next 24 hour gas station we found.</p>
<p>Also, I worked at a couple of mom &amp; pop places in Atlanta where the rest of the wait-staff imposed a &#8220;don&#8217;t give me the black table&#8221; policy. While there was no policy of discrimination the staff created a defacto one due to the untrue perception that black people tip less. I thought they were fools, however, and took every &#8220;dark&#8221; table I could. My tips never suffered &amp; I ended up with a few regulars to-boot.</p>
<p>Anyway; yeah, there is still racial discrimination in America.</p>
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		<title>By: coram nobis</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/26/41303/comment-page-1#comment-115921</link>
		<dc:creator>coram nobis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41303#comment-115921</guid>
		<description>Interesting point about Loving v. Virginia. If little Barack Obama&#039;s parents had come to the stateside U.S. in, oh, 1965, they might have had trouble finding a place to stay in, say, California, thanks to Prop. 14, if the landlord didn&#039;t care for their marriage. And they would have been subject to arrest in Mildred Loving&#039;s Virgina, among other states, under the miscegenation laws.

Now he&#039;s &quot;evolving&quot; on marriage, he says. He might ponder what evolved since 1965.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting point about Loving v. Virginia. If little Barack Obama&#8217;s parents had come to the stateside U.S. in, oh, 1965, they might have had trouble finding a place to stay in, say, California, thanks to Prop. 14, if the landlord didn&#8217;t care for their marriage. And they would have been subject to arrest in Mildred Loving&#8217;s Virgina, among other states, under the miscegenation laws.</p>
<p>Now he&#8217;s &#8220;evolving&#8221; on marriage, he says. He might ponder what evolved since 1965.</p>
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