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	<title>Comments on: Did NARTH Just Diss Exodus?</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: CPT_Doom</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116213</link>
		<dc:creator>CPT_Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116213</guid>
		<description>@Paul Mc - and meanwhile, as NARTH apparently goes begging for the cash necessary to do actual follow-up on their own patients, NOM is able to pour money into any state with an LGBT equality fight. Strange how the same people who keep insisting that &quot;change&quot; is possible won&#039;t put their money where their mouth is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Paul Mc &#8211; and meanwhile, as NARTH apparently goes begging for the cash necessary to do actual follow-up on their own patients, NOM is able to pour money into any state with an LGBT equality fight. Strange how the same people who keep insisting that &#8220;change&#8221; is possible won&#8217;t put their money where their mouth is.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Mc</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116209</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Mc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116209</guid>
		<description>Wait,, NARTH is how old? How many clients go through its doors? 

Yet it can&#039;t find the small amount of funds it would take to produce a study using data IT SHOULD ALREADY be monitoring? It should ALREADY be able to produce a first level qualitative analysis. Where is it? 

This, from the leading lights of the RT industry. Utterly laughable. 

The truth is, IMO, they don&#039;t want the study because they don&#039;t have the data. And they want the funds to supplement the probably decreasing income streams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait,, NARTH is how old? How many clients go through its doors? </p>
<p>Yet it can&#8217;t find the small amount of funds it would take to produce a study using data IT SHOULD ALREADY be monitoring? It should ALREADY be able to produce a first level qualitative analysis. Where is it? </p>
<p>This, from the leading lights of the RT industry. Utterly laughable. </p>
<p>The truth is, IMO, they don&#8217;t want the study because they don&#8217;t have the data. And they want the funds to supplement the probably decreasing income streams.</p>
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		<title>By: grantdale</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116177</link>
		<dc:creator>grantdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116177</guid>
		<description>The short answer to your question is &quot;No.&quot;

NARTH is essentially saying the same thing as Exodus, and neither are recent talking points from either of them:

1) &lt;a href=&quot;http://exodusinternational.org/2008/09/will-my-same-sex-attractions-ever-go-away/#.TyX_QYFiKMk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;change&quot; is on a continuum&lt;/a&gt; (with both using equally weaselly wording that reframes a failure to become heterosexual, or even change homosexual attractions, as some sort of a successful change in sexual &lt;i&gt;orientation&lt;/i&gt;.)

2) &lt;a href=&quot;http://exodusinternational.org/2010/01/find-the-right-counselor/#.TyYDnoFiKMk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;professional&quot; counseling might &quot;help&quot;&lt;/a&gt;, on top of the Exodus religious environment.

Also still unsure why one would think that RT books have been removed, except that some have claimed it to have happened.

Yeah, sure; the unvarnished RT books by Nicolosi/Moberly, as example, are no longer &lt;i&gt;advertised&lt;/i&gt; on-site at Exodus ... but the overwhelming bulk of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.exodusbooks.org/Books_c_42.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the remaining books&lt;/a&gt; are exclusively, or near enough, promoting RT. Often by stealth, RT is embedded throughout Exodus&#039; promoted books, articles, DVDs, LWO conferences, newsletters etc etc.

Beyond that, anyone want to offer me the odds on it taking all of 10 minutes before &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; of the Exodus member ministries would happy provide Nicolosi and Moberly to the punters?

RT is far, far from banished at Exodus; they&#039;re simply finding it prudent these days to use bait-and-switch in yet another part of their MO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The short answer to your question is &#8220;No.&#8221;</p>
<p>NARTH is essentially saying the same thing as Exodus, and neither are recent talking points from either of them:</p>
<p>1) <a href="http://exodusinternational.org/2008/09/will-my-same-sex-attractions-ever-go-away/#.TyX_QYFiKMk" rel="nofollow">&#8220;change&#8221; is on a continuum</a> (with both using equally weaselly wording that reframes a failure to become heterosexual, or even change homosexual attractions, as some sort of a successful change in sexual <i>orientation</i>.)</p>
<p>2) <a href="http://exodusinternational.org/2010/01/find-the-right-counselor/#.TyYDnoFiKMk" rel="nofollow">&#8220;professional&#8221; counseling might &#8220;help&#8221;</a>, on top of the Exodus religious environment.</p>
<p>Also still unsure why one would think that RT books have been removed, except that some have claimed it to have happened.</p>
<p>Yeah, sure; the unvarnished RT books by Nicolosi/Moberly, as example, are no longer <i>advertised</i> on-site at Exodus &#8230; but the overwhelming bulk of <a href="http://www.exodusbooks.org/Books_c_42.html" rel="nofollow">the remaining books</a> are exclusively, or near enough, promoting RT. Often by stealth, RT is embedded throughout Exodus&#8217; promoted books, articles, DVDs, LWO conferences, newsletters etc etc.</p>
<p>Beyond that, anyone want to offer me the odds on it taking all of 10 minutes before <i>any</i> of the Exodus member ministries would happy provide Nicolosi and Moberly to the punters?</p>
<p>RT is far, far from banished at Exodus; they&#8217;re simply finding it prudent these days to use bait-and-switch in yet another part of their MO.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116152</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116152</guid>
		<description>Ha.  If they were really a scientific organization they would accept the science that informs the opinions of every other legitimate professional medical and health organization.  Their only reason for rejecting the available science is religious dogma.  It is also funny that they call themselves a &quot;research&quot; organization but freely admit here that they don&#039;t have the funds to conduct actual research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha.  If they were really a scientific organization they would accept the science that informs the opinions of every other legitimate professional medical and health organization.  Their only reason for rejecting the available science is religious dogma.  It is also funny that they call themselves a &#8220;research&#8221; organization but freely admit here that they don&#8217;t have the funds to conduct actual research.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116065</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 01:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116065</guid>
		<description>You mean they didn&#039;t finish the email with a request for 10 dollars?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean they didn&#8217;t finish the email with a request for 10 dollars?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116047</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116047</guid>
		<description>Ok, anyone want to sign up to be one of their test subjects?  This is all baloney.  Is there any credible evidence to show that someone can be transformed into being homosexual by any means except by the immense societal pressure to be what is considered normal?  Let them take an equal number of straight men and gay men and then try to change their sexual orientation.  I would like to see the outcome of that bizarre test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, anyone want to sign up to be one of their test subjects?  This is all baloney.  Is there any credible evidence to show that someone can be transformed into being homosexual by any means except by the immense societal pressure to be what is considered normal?  Let them take an equal number of straight men and gay men and then try to change their sexual orientation.  I would like to see the outcome of that bizarre test.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116044</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116044</guid>
		<description>Taking the spiritual abuse out of the equation would actually be a small step forward. Still nonsense of course, but not quite as harmful on some levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking the spiritual abuse out of the equation would actually be a small step forward. Still nonsense of course, but not quite as harmful on some levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Singer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116037</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Singer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116037</guid>
		<description>Just got an ad for Liberty University on my RSS feed of BTB!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just got an ad for Liberty University on my RSS feed of BTB!</p>
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		<title>By: AlexND</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116033</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexND</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 20:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116033</guid>
		<description>The most important part of the quote above is the last sentence.

&lt;blockquote&gt;NARTH remains highly interested in conducting such research, pursuant only to the &lt;b&gt;acquisition of sufficient funding&lt;/b&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As if the &#039;research&#039; is where any &#039;sufficient funding&#039; will actually go, right? Riiiiight. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most important part of the quote above is the last sentence.</p>
<blockquote><p>NARTH remains highly interested in conducting such research, pursuant only to the <b>acquisition of sufficient funding</b>.</p></blockquote>
<p>As if the &#8216;research&#8217; is where any &#8216;sufficient funding&#8217; will actually go, right? Riiiiight. . .</p>
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		<title>By: Ben In Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/01/28/41387/comment-page-1#comment-116026</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben In Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=41387#comment-116026</guid>
		<description>informed psycho-therapeutic care?

The only true word in there is PSYCHO!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>informed psycho-therapeutic care?</p>
<p>The only true word in there is PSYCHO!</p>
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