Comments on: Mormons for Marriage concerned about possible church involvement in Washington state http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Thu, 23 May 2013 06:14:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: jerry http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117979 jerry Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:05:30 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117979 A revelation by the Profit will make a difference. When he has found a way to make acceptance of gays pad his bank accounts and the accounts of the other big kahunas of the cult, we will be welcomed like the prodigal son. A revelation by the Profit will make a difference. When he has found a way to make acceptance of gays pad his bank accounts and the accounts of the other big kahunas of the cult, we will be welcomed like the prodigal son.

]]> By: Steve http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117808 Steve Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:40:58 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117808 They just need a divine revelation from their "prophet" (who after all speaks with the voice of god) and everything could change. They had the same dogmatic positions on blacks and blacks in the priesthood. Then they suddenly changed and everyone had to follow the party line. It's a cult that is able to enforce complete obedience in areas where they dominate the social and public life. Of course it's not going to happen anytime soon They just need a divine revelation from their “prophet” (who after all speaks with the voice of god) and everything could change. They had the same dogmatic positions on blacks and blacks in the priesthood. Then they suddenly changed and everyone had to follow the party line. It’s a cult that is able to enforce complete obedience in areas where they dominate the social and public life.

Of course it’s not going to happen anytime soon

]]> By: Soren456 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117807 Soren456 Sat, 18 Feb 2012 21:47:15 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117807 I don't know of another church that has painted itself so irreversibly and distinctly into a corner as have the Mormons on homosexuality and, by extension, marriage equality. They have literally no means to reverse themselves. There's not even wiggle room in their positions. To the best of my (incomplete) knowledge, only a "revelation" from God can change their stance. What this means, of course, is that they will continue to do as we have seen them doing, more subtly and more secretly, but always with the same intention: to kill any option of marriage for gay people. They are not our friends. I don’t know of another church that has painted itself so irreversibly and distinctly into a corner as have the Mormons on homosexuality and, by extension, marriage equality.

They have literally no means to reverse themselves. There’s not even wiggle room in their positions. To the best of my (incomplete) knowledge, only a “revelation” from God can change their stance.

What this means, of course, is that they will continue to do as we have seen them doing, more subtly and more secretly, but always with the same intention: to kill any option of marriage for gay people.

They are not our friends.

]]> By: Fergie http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117791 Fergie Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:05:59 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117791 I think it also depends on where they have a density of LDS Church members (Idaho, Nevada, California, etc. )or extraordinary political influence (Hawaii, Utah, Arizona etc.) The LDS takeaway from the Prop 8 fiasco wasn't to stay out of anti-gay politics, it was just to do it more quietly, stay out of the media glare, and not get caught. If Romney loses in the fall election after all of the LDS efforts to cultivate his image/campaign/fundraising , they won't have to hide their true intentions from the media spotlight anymore. THEN, I think they will come out with guns blazing on anti-gay initiatives. Right now they are letting the Catholics do the heavy lifting in public (but you can still find a constant stream of religious liberty/anti-gay editorials and talking points across all of their LDS-Centric media platforms). I think it also depends on where they have a density of LDS Church members (Idaho, Nevada, California, etc. )or extraordinary political influence (Hawaii, Utah, Arizona etc.)

The LDS takeaway from the Prop 8 fiasco wasn’t to stay out of anti-gay politics, it was just to do it more quietly, stay out of the media glare, and not get caught.

If Romney loses in the fall election after all of the LDS efforts to cultivate his image/campaign/fundraising , they won’t have to hide their true intentions from the media spotlight anymore. THEN, I think they will come out with guns blazing on anti-gay initiatives.

Right now they are letting the Catholics do the heavy lifting in public (but you can still find a constant stream of religious liberty/anti-gay editorials and talking points across all of their LDS-Centric media platforms).

]]> By: cowboy http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117790 cowboy Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:05:13 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117790 It'll take years for the homosexual community to not think of Mormons as big 'meanies'; even when the Mormons say they're not for any sort of discrimination towards LGBT folk. It's too late. The Mormons have been branded. It’ll take years for the homosexual community to not think of Mormons as big ‘meanies’; even when the Mormons say they’re not for any sort of discrimination towards LGBT folk.

It’s too late. The Mormons have been branded.

]]> By: Theo http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117786 Theo Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:04:48 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117786 As gay marriage is now likely to be on the ballot in 5 states, it will be very interesting to see if the LDS wades back in to the fight. We do know that they opted not to make any significant moves in Maine and Washington in 2009. Also, they did not mobilize their members for legislative lobbying in NY, WA, NJ, or MD. As far as I know, they have not been a presence in the MN or NC fights so far. So if I had to guess, I'd say that they will stay out or perhaps just issue statements supportive of the anti-gay efforts. As gay marriage is now likely to be on the ballot in 5 states, it will be very interesting to see if the LDS wades back in to the fight.

We do know that they opted not to make any significant moves in Maine and Washington in 2009. Also, they did not mobilize their members for legislative lobbying in NY, WA, NJ, or MD. As far as I know, they have not been a presence in the MN or NC fights so far.

So if I had to guess, I’d say that they will stay out or perhaps just issue statements supportive of the anti-gay efforts.

]]> By: Steve http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117783 Steve Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:46:00 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117783 "request from the Prophet" is putting it mildly. An order from the so-called 'Prophet' conman is like the word of god for them and disobeying it can have very serious consequences in some circles “request from the Prophet” is putting it mildly. An order from the so-called ‘Prophet’ conman is like the word of god for them and disobeying it can have very serious consequences in some circles

]]> By: TominDC http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117761 TominDC Sat, 18 Feb 2012 02:08:32 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117761 @Larry I find the way you phrase your question troubling. There is no new "threat" of public disclosure because those lists of names/signatures were always supposed to be available to the public. I have no doubt that lots of people didn't know that, and that some people would probably not sign controversial petitions if they knew of it. But it's not a new thing. And people who sign their names onto documents have no excuse for not finding out exactly what they've committed themselves to. @Larry

I find the way you phrase your question troubling. There is no new “threat” of public disclosure because those lists of names/signatures were always supposed to be available to the public.

I have no doubt that lots of people didn’t know that, and that some people would probably not sign controversial petitions if they knew of it. But it’s not a new thing. And people who sign their names onto documents have no excuse for not finding out exactly what they’ve committed themselves to.

]]> By: Larry http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/17/42155/comment-page-1#comment-117753 Larry Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:13:21 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42155#comment-117753 It seems to me the other news out of Washington State today could have an impact on the success of a new petition drive. Will the threat of public disclosure (whosigned.org) have a cooling effect on voters who might not want their names made public? It seems to me the other news out of Washington State today could have an impact on the success of a new petition drive. Will the threat of public disclosure (whosigned.org) have a cooling effect on voters who might not want their names made public?

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