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	<title>Comments on: Federal Court Strikes Down Section 3 of DOMA</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302/comment-page-1#comment-118159</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 02:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42302#comment-118159</guid>
		<description>TN, kinda.

Actually this is a two-fer for us.

Heightened scrutiny means that the target of the law is a class of people for which it is legally assumed that targeting them is going to always be unconstitutional.  You don&#039;t have to look at every single law that singles out black people for different treatment to see if this one in particular is unconstitutional because it&#039;s a given.  Police wont enforce a racist law; they already know it won&#039;t fly.

For gay people, it&#039;s been a mixed bag.  Without heightened scrutiny, every new anti-gay law that is presented is assumed to be just fine until it is challenged in court.  Even blatantly unconstitutional laws like Tennessee&#039;s &quot;can&#039;t say gay&quot; law is presumed legal until proven otherwise. 

Judge White said the same thing that Judge Walker said: gay people deserve the presumptions of heightened scrutiny, but this law here wouldn&#039;t pass the &#039;oh, gee, make up anything as long as it&#039;s not completely delusional&#039; rational basis test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TN, kinda.</p>
<p>Actually this is a two-fer for us.</p>
<p>Heightened scrutiny means that the target of the law is a class of people for which it is legally assumed that targeting them is going to always be unconstitutional.  You don&#8217;t have to look at every single law that singles out black people for different treatment to see if this one in particular is unconstitutional because it&#8217;s a given.  Police wont enforce a racist law; they already know it won&#8217;t fly.</p>
<p>For gay people, it&#8217;s been a mixed bag.  Without heightened scrutiny, every new anti-gay law that is presented is assumed to be just fine until it is challenged in court.  Even blatantly unconstitutional laws like Tennessee&#8217;s &#8220;can&#8217;t say gay&#8221; law is presumed legal until proven otherwise. </p>
<p>Judge White said the same thing that Judge Walker said: gay people deserve the presumptions of heightened scrutiny, but this law here wouldn&#8217;t pass the &#8216;oh, gee, make up anything as long as it&#8217;s not completely delusional&#8217; rational basis test.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302/comment-page-1#comment-118151</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 01:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42302#comment-118151</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Prejudice, we are beginning to understand, rises not from malice or hostile animus alone. It may result as well from insensitivity caused by simple want of careful, rational reflection or from some instinctive mechanism to guard against people who appear to be different in some respects from ourselves.&lt;/i&gt;

yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

I love this.  Not only is it true but we would be better served by recognizing it as such.

Too often we equate opposition to same-sex marriage with hatred. While this may feed our need to dislike and discredit the opposition, it changes few minds.  

&quot;You&#039;re a hater&quot; is not very effective in convincing someone - who doesn&#039;t hate you - that they should rethink this issue.  But &quot;you haven&#039;t given careful, rational reflection to the issue and are accepting instead a pre-judged conclusion&quot; may well encourage a change of position.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Prejudice, we are beginning to understand, rises not from malice or hostile animus alone. It may result as well from insensitivity caused by simple want of careful, rational reflection or from some instinctive mechanism to guard against people who appear to be different in some respects from ourselves.</i></p>
<p>yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.</p>
<p>I love this.  Not only is it true but we would be better served by recognizing it as such.</p>
<p>Too often we equate opposition to same-sex marriage with hatred. While this may feed our need to dislike and discredit the opposition, it changes few minds.  </p>
<p>&#8220;You&#8217;re a hater&#8221; is not very effective in convincing someone &#8211; who doesn&#8217;t hate you &#8211; that they should rethink this issue.  But &#8220;you haven&#8217;t given careful, rational reflection to the issue and are accepting instead a pre-judged conclusion&#8221; may well encourage a change of position.  </p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302/comment-page-1#comment-118149</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 01:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42302#comment-118149</guid>
		<description>And as the latest proof that the gods have a wicked sense of humor...

White was appointed to the Federal Bench by... wait for it... DUBYA!!

Marriage has been, due to the whims of fate, primarily decided by Republican Judges appointed by Republican Presidents who looked at the constitution and couldn&#039;t find that gosh darn asterisk that excluded gay people (drat that strict adherence to the wording).  And so when I hear Republican nominees tell their audiences that they will appoint judges that uphold the constitution and not read some liberal social agenda into it, I just nod and giggle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as the latest proof that the gods have a wicked sense of humor&#8230;</p>
<p>White was appointed to the Federal Bench by&#8230; wait for it&#8230; DUBYA!!</p>
<p>Marriage has been, due to the whims of fate, primarily decided by Republican Judges appointed by Republican Presidents who looked at the constitution and couldn&#8217;t find that gosh darn asterisk that excluded gay people (drat that strict adherence to the wording).  And so when I hear Republican nominees tell their audiences that they will appoint judges that uphold the constitution and not read some liberal social agenda into it, I just nod and giggle.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony P</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302/comment-page-1#comment-118145</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 01:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42302#comment-118145</guid>
		<description>Anti-gay laws are dying the death of a thousand paper cuts right now. But one thing that is happening is that the preponderance of defeats of DOMA mean it should be hitting the USSC any time now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anti-gay laws are dying the death of a thousand paper cuts right now. But one thing that is happening is that the preponderance of defeats of DOMA mean it should be hitting the USSC any time now.</p>
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		<title>By: TN</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302/comment-page-1#comment-118141</link>
		<dc:creator>TN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 01:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42302#comment-118141</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t rational basis better than strict scrutiny in some cases? If a law fails rational basis, that means it&#039;s the worst kind of law, right? But if it fails strict or heightened scrutiny, it means it *could* be constitutional, but because of the nature of the right it infringes on it has to be thrown out. Is that right? So a law that infringes on religious freedom would have to be held up to strict scrutiny, which is good in that case. What is the point of these different levels?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t rational basis better than strict scrutiny in some cases? If a law fails rational basis, that means it&#8217;s the worst kind of law, right? But if it fails strict or heightened scrutiny, it means it *could* be constitutional, but because of the nature of the right it infringes on it has to be thrown out. Is that right? So a law that infringes on religious freedom would have to be held up to strict scrutiny, which is good in that case. What is the point of these different levels?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben In Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/02/22/42302/comment-page-1#comment-118140</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben In Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 01:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42302#comment-118140</guid>
		<description>So am I reading this correctly?

The multimillion dollar House defense of DOMA, starring Paul Clement as a $500 rent-a-gent, has not only failed, but made the case even worse by implementing an even higher level of scrutiny?

I sure hope so, because I am currently smiling mit schadenfreude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So am I reading this correctly?</p>
<p>The multimillion dollar House defense of DOMA, starring Paul Clement as a $500 rent-a-gent, has not only failed, but made the case even worse by implementing an even higher level of scrutiny?</p>
<p>I sure hope so, because I am currently smiling mit schadenfreude.</p>
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