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	<title>Comments on: Santorum&#8217;s Pastor Problem</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-120001</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-120001</guid>
		<description>Blake

I appreciate many of the good points you made. But we should not ignore Santorum standing and applauding the preacher&#039;s speech. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake</p>
<p>I appreciate many of the good points you made. But we should not ignore Santorum standing and applauding the preacher&#8217;s speech. </p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119988</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119988</guid>
		<description>Timothy, 
Clearly, I disagree. Finding a Candidate for the President of the United States is about the prospective candidate&#039;s qualifications regardless of how they&#039;re running their campaign. I suggest that Santroum is making his campaign about his religion because that is where he wants the focus. If we ignore the low-hanging-fruit he&#039;s totally unelectable. If we engage his campaign in the way that he anticipates us to then he suddenly has a powerful sympathy vote. There&#039;s a reason he hasn&#039;t dropped out yet (aside from naivete) &amp; now we&#039;re playing into his strategy by attacking the religious beliefs of who exactly? Not his pastor, not the man who introduced him, but the man who spoke first at a service he &lt;i&gt;attended&lt;/i&gt;. How exactly is that damning?

I had to dig to find this out, but &lt;b&gt;TONY PERKINS&lt;/b&gt; introduced Santorum that day. But here we&#039;re all ignoring the fact that he was introduced by the leader of a hate group in an effort to... well I just don&#039;t get it... what is wrong about being in the same room as a nut-job dominionist with a microphone?

Regarding the distastefulness of bringing the pastors into political debates: I don’t think people always choose their pastors, I don’t think people expect that what their pastors say will be taken seen as a personal endorsement of the position espoused by said pastor, I don’t think people should have to consider the politics of the pastor when choosing a church, I don’t think attending a church qualifies as an endorsement of everything said at the pulpit, and I don’t think visitors to a church are automatically endorsing what a pastor is saying by applauding.

I think that goes for someone who runs their campaign as a referendum on their religious beliefs or for someone who doesn&#039;t.

It is my understanding that attempting character-assassination via a charge of guilt-by-association to one&#039;s pastor was a novel political development of the Hillary Clinton campaign. Let&#039;s not give that terrible idea legs by granting it further legitimacy (and expanding its scope). 

That red meat up there still look juicy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy,<br />
Clearly, I disagree. Finding a Candidate for the President of the United States is about the prospective candidate&#8217;s qualifications regardless of how they&#8217;re running their campaign. I suggest that Santroum is making his campaign about his religion because that is where he wants the focus. If we ignore the low-hanging-fruit he&#8217;s totally unelectable. If we engage his campaign in the way that he anticipates us to then he suddenly has a powerful sympathy vote. There&#8217;s a reason he hasn&#8217;t dropped out yet (aside from naivete) &amp; now we&#8217;re playing into his strategy by attacking the religious beliefs of who exactly? Not his pastor, not the man who introduced him, but the man who spoke first at a service he <i>attended</i>. How exactly is that damning?</p>
<p>I had to dig to find this out, but <b>TONY PERKINS</b> introduced Santorum that day. But here we&#8217;re all ignoring the fact that he was introduced by the leader of a hate group in an effort to&#8230; well I just don&#8217;t get it&#8230; what is wrong about being in the same room as a nut-job dominionist with a microphone?</p>
<p>Regarding the distastefulness of bringing the pastors into political debates: I don’t think people always choose their pastors, I don’t think people expect that what their pastors say will be taken seen as a personal endorsement of the position espoused by said pastor, I don’t think people should have to consider the politics of the pastor when choosing a church, I don’t think attending a church qualifies as an endorsement of everything said at the pulpit, and I don’t think visitors to a church are automatically endorsing what a pastor is saying by applauding.</p>
<p>I think that goes for someone who runs their campaign as a referendum on their religious beliefs or for someone who doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It is my understanding that attempting character-assassination via a charge of guilt-by-association to one&#8217;s pastor was a novel political development of the Hillary Clinton campaign. Let&#8217;s not give that terrible idea legs by granting it further legitimacy (and expanding its scope). </p>
<p>That red meat up there still look juicy?</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119979</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119979</guid>
		<description>Blake,

I disagree.  To oppose Santorum for reasons other than his religious beliefs would require ignoring his campaign.  He is running on his religious beliefs, that&#039;s about all his campaign does.

Obama didn&#039;t present himself as a candidate to be judged in terms of faith.  So it was distasteful to make it a campaign issue.

Santorum insists that his faith be a campaign issue - so it is not only reasonable but necessary to look at what that means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake,</p>
<p>I disagree.  To oppose Santorum for reasons other than his religious beliefs would require ignoring his campaign.  He is running on his religious beliefs, that&#8217;s about all his campaign does.</p>
<p>Obama didn&#8217;t present himself as a candidate to be judged in terms of faith.  So it was distasteful to make it a campaign issue.</p>
<p>Santorum insists that his faith be a campaign issue &#8211; so it is not only reasonable but necessary to look at what that means.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119944</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119944</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure this is the red meat you&#039;re looking for. How will that clip really play out in the news cycle? I can just imagine the propagandists getting their hands on how it plays out and saying &quot;look I TOLD YOU they would attack you for your beliefs&quot; while completely obscuring the offensive nature of Pastor Terry&#039;s content. 

Also, it&#039;s distasteful/offensive to bring religious leaders into political debates in this manner. I didn&#039;t care for it when it happened to Obama &amp; I don&#039;t care for it now. There are a million reasons to oppose Santourm outside of his religious beliefs. Let&#039;s focus on those reasons rather than agreeing that obscure Pastors&#039; opinions are this central to the election process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure this is the red meat you&#8217;re looking for. How will that clip really play out in the news cycle? I can just imagine the propagandists getting their hands on how it plays out and saying &#8220;look I TOLD YOU they would attack you for your beliefs&#8221; while completely obscuring the offensive nature of Pastor Terry&#8217;s content. </p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s distasteful/offensive to bring religious leaders into political debates in this manner. I didn&#8217;t care for it when it happened to Obama &amp; I don&#8217;t care for it now. There are a million reasons to oppose Santourm outside of his religious beliefs. Let&#8217;s focus on those reasons rather than agreeing that obscure Pastors&#8217; opinions are this central to the election process.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben In Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119871</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben In Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119871</guid>
		<description>I could have sworn that I just read the Little ricky was saying he really wasn&#039;t paying attention to this wingnut.

Put the anointing and the speech together, and you have Obama&#039;s political campaign brought to you by the GOP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could have sworn that I just read the Little ricky was saying he really wasn&#8217;t paying attention to this wingnut.</p>
<p>Put the anointing and the speech together, and you have Obama&#8217;s political campaign brought to you by the GOP</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119870</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119870</guid>
		<description>At least Stantorum listened and heard what this nut had to say ............ and, hopefully be made to answer for the pastor&#039;s sermon.  Obama sat in the pews of his horrid church for over ten years and did not hear any darn thing for years. He got a nearly total pass for his selection of his long-term nutty pastor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least Stantorum listened and heard what this nut had to say &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; and, hopefully be made to answer for the pastor&#8217;s sermon.  Obama sat in the pews of his horrid church for over ten years and did not hear any darn thing for years. He got a nearly total pass for his selection of his long-term nutty pastor.</p>
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		<title>By: Soren456</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119868</link>
		<dc:creator>Soren456</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119868</guid>
		<description>He is a strutting, posturing argument for an educated clergy -- a term more oxymoronic every day.

My concentration in college was American history, especially the career and character of Richard Nixon. For any who doubt that this preacher&#039;s sentiments lack political power, consider Nixon&#039;s successful identification, courting and use of the &quot;silent majority.&quot; His landslide 1972 reelection -- 49 of 50 states -- is due in great part to appeals to, and manipulation of, sentiments not unfamiliar to this preacher.

There are differences, for now. But what is important are the similarities: namely, the wide belief that sacred American institutions (insert your favorite) are being trampled. This, and an appeal to historic and shameful American anti-intellectualism, form a nucleus around which great political mischief has grown in the past.

This preacher misfires -- for now. He is too specific, too Christian; Nixon would advise him to spread out, to generalize, to offer non-specific hints at social ills and grievances with which the Silent Majority/Moral Majority can identify. 

This will happen, and these preachers will be very dangerous indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He is a strutting, posturing argument for an educated clergy &#8212; a term more oxymoronic every day.</p>
<p>My concentration in college was American history, especially the career and character of Richard Nixon. For any who doubt that this preacher&#8217;s sentiments lack political power, consider Nixon&#8217;s successful identification, courting and use of the &#8220;silent majority.&#8221; His landslide 1972 reelection &#8212; 49 of 50 states &#8212; is due in great part to appeals to, and manipulation of, sentiments not unfamiliar to this preacher.</p>
<p>There are differences, for now. But what is important are the similarities: namely, the wide belief that sacred American institutions (insert your favorite) are being trampled. This, and an appeal to historic and shameful American anti-intellectualism, form a nucleus around which great political mischief has grown in the past.</p>
<p>This preacher misfires &#8212; for now. He is too specific, too Christian; Nixon would advise him to spread out, to generalize, to offer non-specific hints at social ills and grievances with which the Silent Majority/Moral Majority can identify. </p>
<p>This will happen, and these preachers will be very dangerous indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119856</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119856</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;let me remind you of all those Americans who thought likewise about the possibility of terrorist attacks on American soil…&lt;/i&gt;

or those who thought that Americans would never &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/wwcod/granada.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;put other Americans in &quot;camps&quot;&lt;/a&gt; because of their race... 

The problem with the unthinkable is that it isn&#039;t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>let me remind you of all those Americans who thought likewise about the possibility of terrorist attacks on American soil…</i></p>
<p>or those who thought that Americans would never <a href="http://www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/wwcod/granada.htm" rel="nofollow">put other Americans in &#8220;camps&#8221;</a> because of their race&#8230; </p>
<p>The problem with the unthinkable is that it isn&#8217;t</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119854</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119854</guid>
		<description>I dare say that it is alien and disturbing to Episcopalians and Methodists and Lutherans and Quakers and a broad range of protestants as well.

Because speech of this sort is inherently disturbing.  It is a threat to our agreement to live peaceably with others and is a call for theocratic totalitarianism.

I think this sort of thing is terrifying outside of the dominionist camps.  Were Santorum to gain the candidacy, I could easily see an add with nothing but clips of this preacher screaming and Santorum applauding.  No need for even for comment, it stands on its own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dare say that it is alien and disturbing to Episcopalians and Methodists and Lutherans and Quakers and a broad range of protestants as well.</p>
<p>Because speech of this sort is inherently disturbing.  It is a threat to our agreement to live peaceably with others and is a call for theocratic totalitarianism.</p>
<p>I think this sort of thing is terrifying outside of the dominionist camps.  Were Santorum to gain the candidacy, I could easily see an add with nothing but clips of this preacher screaming and Santorum applauding.  No need for even for comment, it stands on its own.</p>
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		<title>By: TwirlyGirly</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/03/20/42995/comment-page-1#comment-119852</link>
		<dc:creator>TwirlyGirly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=42995#comment-119852</guid>
		<description>Anybody who thinks the Dominionist movement is not a threat to our nation and to our freedom simply isn&#039;t paying attention. Many believe it&#039;s just &quot;talk&quot;, and that our constitution will protect us.

I wouldn&#039;t bet on it...

For those who have a &quot;well, that can&#039;t happen HERE&quot; mentality about the threat of America being governed according to Biblical law, let me remind you of all those Americans who thought likewise about the possibility of terrorist attacks on American soil...

Yes, the things we&#039;ve seen happen in other parts of the world CAN happen here, folks. We&#039;re not as insulated from and as powerful against these forces as we like to think we are, especially when the &quot;enemy&quot; is coming from within.

Because these changes are happening incrementally, not overnight, they&#039;re easier to ignore and not be seen as part of a larger movement. Little by little, they ARE making inroads and moving towards their goals. If we don&#039;t start taking this threat seriously, we&#039;re in for a heap of trouble not too far down the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody who thinks the Dominionist movement is not a threat to our nation and to our freedom simply isn&#8217;t paying attention. Many believe it&#8217;s just &#8220;talk&#8221;, and that our constitution will protect us.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t bet on it&#8230;</p>
<p>For those who have a &#8220;well, that can&#8217;t happen HERE&#8221; mentality about the threat of America being governed according to Biblical law, let me remind you of all those Americans who thought likewise about the possibility of terrorist attacks on American soil&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes, the things we&#8217;ve seen happen in other parts of the world CAN happen here, folks. We&#8217;re not as insulated from and as powerful against these forces as we like to think we are, especially when the &#8220;enemy&#8221; is coming from within.</p>
<p>Because these changes are happening incrementally, not overnight, they&#8217;re easier to ignore and not be seen as part of a larger movement. Little by little, they ARE making inroads and moving towards their goals. If we don&#8217;t start taking this threat seriously, we&#8217;re in for a heap of trouble not too far down the road.</p>
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