<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: How to respond when a damaging person comes out</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 19:56:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120678</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 17:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120678</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If someone is a &quot;blowhard, hypocrite, airhead, sanctimonious prick&quot; then is it hateful to say so? I don&#039;t think so.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

If saying so is conveying information, it might not be. If its Intended as a reprimand as part of a path to redemption, it might not be. 

But as a tool of contempt used only for the purpose of expressing one&#039;s loathing for another, then of course it is hateful. 



&lt;I&gt; If someone uses the word &#039;Jebus&#039;, is that hate? One would think so, if the opinions expressed in these pages are correct.&lt;/I&gt;

On this one I couldn&#039;t think of a single possible usage that didn&#039;t include a desire to show animus. 

I agree that the word &quot;hate&quot; has meaning and should not be used indiscriminately. I reserve it for those times in which it seems to be the only clear driving factor. 

I think perhaps there is a bit of disconnect on your part. And I&#039;m going to make a couple guesses. 

You think that hating is bad. And, unless I&#039;m mistaken, you are likely among those who think being a hater is one of the wort things one can be and will use that title as a slur. (and I apologize if I got that wrong.)

But if im reading your comment correctly you still want to engage in the practice. But not have it called hate. 

When Linda Harvey directs it our way it&#039;s HATE and she&#039;s a HATER. But if we do it, then it&#039;s, well, something else. 

But I have a question for you: if it isn&#039;t bad when we do it, then doesn&#039;t that mean that it&#039;s not bad when they do it as well?  Maybe hating is a perfectly fine thing to do?

Perhaps the next time you say, &quot;he&#039;s a hater&quot;, you might add &quot;which is a fine thing to be.&quot;

And honestly it might be. I don&#039;t care if someone hates gay people so long as they have a philosophical understanding of equality and support my rights. And I don&#039;t mind if you hate them back ... So long as you dont articulate that hate at BTB.

That&#039;s what Queerty is for. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If someone is a &#8220;blowhard, hypocrite, airhead, sanctimonious prick&#8221; then is it hateful to say so? I don&#8217;t think so.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>If saying so is conveying information, it might not be. If its Intended as a reprimand as part of a path to redemption, it might not be. </p>
<p>But as a tool of contempt used only for the purpose of expressing one&#8217;s loathing for another, then of course it is hateful. </p>
<p><i> If someone uses the word &#8216;Jebus&#8217;, is that hate? One would think so, if the opinions expressed in these pages are correct.</i></p>
<p>On this one I couldn&#8217;t think of a single possible usage that didn&#8217;t include a desire to show animus. </p>
<p>I agree that the word &#8220;hate&#8221; has meaning and should not be used indiscriminately. I reserve it for those times in which it seems to be the only clear driving factor. </p>
<p>I think perhaps there is a bit of disconnect on your part. And I&#8217;m going to make a couple guesses. </p>
<p>You think that hating is bad. And, unless I&#8217;m mistaken, you are likely among those who think being a hater is one of the wort things one can be and will use that title as a slur. (and I apologize if I got that wrong.)</p>
<p>But if im reading your comment correctly you still want to engage in the practice. But not have it called hate. </p>
<p>When Linda Harvey directs it our way it&#8217;s HATE and she&#8217;s a HATER. But if we do it, then it&#8217;s, well, something else. </p>
<p>But I have a question for you: if it isn&#8217;t bad when we do it, then doesn&#8217;t that mean that it&#8217;s not bad when they do it as well?  Maybe hating is a perfectly fine thing to do?</p>
<p>Perhaps the next time you say, &#8220;he&#8217;s a hater&#8221;, you might add &#8220;which is a fine thing to be.&#8221;</p>
<p>And honestly it might be. I don&#8217;t care if someone hates gay people so long as they have a philosophical understanding of equality and support my rights. And I don&#8217;t mind if you hate them back &#8230; So long as you dont articulate that hate at BTB.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what Queerty is for. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul in Canada</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120672</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul in Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 14:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120672</guid>
		<description>The most difficult thing for humans to do is forgive. But it is the most healing too.  We should always forgive.

But - that doesn&#039;t mean we forget. And the consequences of reprehensible behaviour are damaging and often times long-lasting.

I don&#039;t get a sense that this man really understands the damage he&#039;s caused. Time will tell. And who am I to judge?

I wish him well and hope he finds a path to living with real authenticity and integrity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most difficult thing for humans to do is forgive. But it is the most healing too.  We should always forgive.</p>
<p>But &#8211; that doesn&#8217;t mean we forget. And the consequences of reprehensible behaviour are damaging and often times long-lasting.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get a sense that this man really understands the damage he&#8217;s caused. Time will tell. And who am I to judge?</p>
<p>I wish him well and hope he finds a path to living with real authenticity and integrity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120669</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 09:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120669</guid>
		<description>If someone is a &quot;blowhard, hypocrite, airhead, sanctimonious prick&quot; then is it hateful to say so? I don&#039;t think so. If someone uses the word &#039;Jebus&#039;, is that hate? One would think so, if the opinions expressed in these pages are correct.

It seems to me that there is no clear agreement about the meaning of the word &#039;hate&#039; as its used here. We need to be more careful with the term or it will become just a way to rebuke those who disagree with our particular view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If someone is a &#8220;blowhard, hypocrite, airhead, sanctimonious prick&#8221; then is it hateful to say so? I don&#8217;t think so. If someone uses the word &#8216;Jebus&#8217;, is that hate? One would think so, if the opinions expressed in these pages are correct.</p>
<p>It seems to me that there is no clear agreement about the meaning of the word &#8216;hate&#8217; as its used here. We need to be more careful with the term or it will become just a way to rebuke those who disagree with our particular view.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: iDavid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120655</link>
		<dc:creator>iDavid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 22:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120655</guid>
		<description>I have to agree w Ben in Oakland, a simple &quot;I certainly regret the hurt I may have caused people along the way&quot; is necessary for a complete picture of a reformed abuser. A large piece is missing. Some people feel like they&#039;d choke on &quot;I&#039;m sorry&quot;. I think we have two of them right here. I do understand how people change with the product of the times, but setting up a beach chair (as in James&#039;s case) after swimming the icy waters of discrimination doesn&#039;t exactly help the people you pushed under along the way who are still sputtering in the water. Finally making it across the river is cool, but somehow it seems tossing a life preserver to the people still flailing before sipping cocktails is &quot;the right thing to do&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree w Ben in Oakland, a simple &#8220;I certainly regret the hurt I may have caused people along the way&#8221; is necessary for a complete picture of a reformed abuser. A large piece is missing. Some people feel like they&#8217;d choke on &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry&#8221;. I think we have two of them right here. I do understand how people change with the product of the times, but setting up a beach chair (as in James&#8217;s case) after swimming the icy waters of discrimination doesn&#8217;t exactly help the people you pushed under along the way who are still sputtering in the water. Finally making it across the river is cool, but somehow it seems tossing a life preserver to the people still flailing before sipping cocktails is &#8220;the right thing to do&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keppler</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120654</link>
		<dc:creator>Keppler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 22:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120654</guid>
		<description>All I hear in the Shepherd interview of Langteaux is self-satisfaction. No regret; no remorse; no uncertainty. I dunno, maybe that&#039;s the voice of the true evangelical. It doesn&#039;t engender trust or sympathy because it doesn&#039;t ask for any. He seems like just another huckster flogging bibles - albeit the New Living Translation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I hear in the Shepherd interview of Langteaux is self-satisfaction. No regret; no remorse; no uncertainty. I dunno, maybe that&#8217;s the voice of the true evangelical. It doesn&#8217;t engender trust or sympathy because it doesn&#8217;t ask for any. He seems like just another huckster flogging bibles &#8211; albeit the New Living Translation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lord_Byron</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120642</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord_Byron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120642</guid>
		<description>Langteaux just like Lehman, in that article Ben posted, and Mahl want to be forgiven without taking any personal responsibility for the hurt and pain that they caused. They are of the attitude that because they came out of the closet we have to forgive them. 

Also, not to start a fight with timothy because I know his views, but lehman really annoys me. &quot;Am I supposed to embrace higher taxes because we&#039;re gay? Am I supposed to embrace big labor and additional regulatory authority because I&#039;m gay? Then why the groupthink and the presumption if one is gay they should be in one political party?&quot; The modern gop is strongly anti-gay and anti-marriage equality is still a key platform in many states. I could go on a triad about how she wants big business to be able to pollute, but I won&#039;t. Although to be fair it&#039;s not gop vs democrats on this, but more liberals vs conservatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Langteaux just like Lehman, in that article Ben posted, and Mahl want to be forgiven without taking any personal responsibility for the hurt and pain that they caused. They are of the attitude that because they came out of the closet we have to forgive them. </p>
<p>Also, not to start a fight with timothy because I know his views, but lehman really annoys me. &#8220;Am I supposed to embrace higher taxes because we&#8217;re gay? Am I supposed to embrace big labor and additional regulatory authority because I&#8217;m gay? Then why the groupthink and the presumption if one is gay they should be in one political party?&#8221; The modern gop is strongly anti-gay and anti-marriage equality is still a key platform in many states. I could go on a triad about how she wants big business to be able to pollute, but I won&#8217;t. Although to be fair it&#8217;s not gop vs democrats on this, but more liberals vs conservatives.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben In Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120641</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben In Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 16:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120641</guid>
		<description>I have the same reaction to this man as I had to this woman.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/kathryn-lehman-doma_n_1341775.html?ref=mostpopular,gay-marriage#comments

This whole article is a perfect example of the corrosive nature of the closet, how it perverts, degrades, debases and destroys everything it touches. Kathryn Lehman has yet to say &#039;I was wrong.&#039; she has yet to admit that she was quite well aware of who she was, and what she chose to see instead of what was clearly in front of her. She said that people whom she knows have no problem with her personally being gay, but nowhere does she say she challenged them on why they cannot apply those simple truths to other people they don&#039;t know, know nothing about, and who have done them no harm.

I am all for forgiveness. But with forgiveness must come atonement and the acceptance of responsibility. She&#039;s still trying to avoid her responsibility, hoping that atonement will be sufficient for forgiveness.

I applaud her efforts to undo the damage. But she&#039;s still trying to have it both ways. Her every comment is still, &#039;But how was I to know?&#039;

You still have a long way to go, lady. Good luck with it.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have the same reaction to this man as I had to this woman.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/kathryn-lehman-doma_n_1341775.html?ref=mostpopular,gay-marriage#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/kathryn-lehman-doma_n_1341775.html?ref=mostpopular,gay-marriage#comments</a></p>
<p>This whole article is a perfect example of the corrosive nature of the closet, how it perverts, degrades, debases and destroys everything it touches. Kathryn Lehman has yet to say &#8216;I was wrong.&#8217; she has yet to admit that she was quite well aware of who she was, and what she chose to see instead of what was clearly in front of her. She said that people whom she knows have no problem with her personally being gay, but nowhere does she say she challenged them on why they cannot apply those simple truths to other people they don&#8217;t know, know nothing about, and who have done them no harm.</p>
<p>I am all for forgiveness. But with forgiveness must come atonement and the acceptance of responsibility. She&#8217;s still trying to avoid her responsibility, hoping that atonement will be sufficient for forgiveness.</p>
<p>I applaud her efforts to undo the damage. But she&#8217;s still trying to have it both ways. Her every comment is still, &#8216;But how was I to know?&#8217;</p>
<p>You still have a long way to go, lady. Good luck with it.”</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Soren456</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120639</link>
		<dc:creator>Soren456</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 16:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120639</guid>
		<description>Avery&#039;s commentary is not a &quot;hate piece.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avery&#8217;s commentary is not a &#8220;hate piece.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hue-Man</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120638</link>
		<dc:creator>Hue-Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 15:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120638</guid>
		<description>My problem with people like this and Mehlman and the denizens of the gay/glass closet is that it sends a message: you can make your millions, you can act against LGBT people, you can lie until you&#039;re 80 years old with ZERO consequences (except self-inflicted damage). In all three cases, there is little or no atonement, no &quot;I would do things differently if I had my life to live over again&quot;. Instead, it&#039;s &quot;I&#039;ve done my three &quot;Hail Marys&quot; penance and now we can forget all the vicious, hateful things I&#039;ve been saying for the last 50 years&quot;.

I don&#039;t know what the solution is but my own personal view is that the slimy, sleazy hate-filled person has not changed in any meaningful way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with people like this and Mehlman and the denizens of the gay/glass closet is that it sends a message: you can make your millions, you can act against LGBT people, you can lie until you&#8217;re 80 years old with ZERO consequences (except self-inflicted damage). In all three cases, there is little or no atonement, no &#8220;I would do things differently if I had my life to live over again&#8221;. Instead, it&#8217;s &#8220;I&#8217;ve done my three &#8220;Hail Marys&#8221; penance and now we can forget all the vicious, hateful things I&#8217;ve been saying for the last 50 years&#8221;.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the solution is but my own personal view is that the slimy, sleazy hate-filled person has not changed in any meaningful way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295/comment-page-1#comment-120628</link>
		<dc:creator>Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/01/43295#comment-120628</guid>
		<description>Dan Avery seems to written a piece that takes this man to task for continuing in the same smarmy business he&#039;s always been in. No rampaging hatred (which is what I expected from Timothy&#039;s statements), just a less than kind look at what seems to be another vehicle for this fraud to make a living. Timothy you were harsher on Carson Daly than on this man. Why is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan Avery seems to written a piece that takes this man to task for continuing in the same smarmy business he&#8217;s always been in. No rampaging hatred (which is what I expected from Timothy&#8217;s statements), just a less than kind look at what seems to be another vehicle for this fraud to make a living. Timothy you were harsher on Carson Daly than on this man. Why is that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
