Comments on: Mormon Families and Friends Have a Message for the Church http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:53:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Jay Jonson http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747/comment-page-1#comment-122039 Jay Jonson Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:59:39 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43747#comment-122039 Palerobber, I'll also stick with what I said, the whole passage: "A lot of the kids these people say they love will wind up either killing themselves or hospitalized for depression because they are encouraged to remain in the very circumstances that lead to their suicidal impulses: the spiritual terrorism practiced by the Mormon church." Things will not get better for them until these kids escape the spiritual terrorism they face within the Mormon cult. Their parents are not helping them by encouraging them to stay there and assuring them, falsely, that things will get better. Palerobber, I’ll also stick with what I said, the whole passage: “A lot of the kids these people say they love will wind up either killing themselves or hospitalized for depression because they are encouraged to remain in the very circumstances that lead to their suicidal impulses: the spiritual terrorism practiced by the Mormon church.” Things will not get better for them until these kids escape the spiritual terrorism they face within the Mormon cult. Their parents are not helping them by encouraging them to stay there and assuring them, falsely, that things will get better.

]]> By: Soren456 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747/comment-page-1#comment-122000 Soren456 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:37:25 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43747#comment-122000 @palerobber: I'll stick with what I said. Which was that "it gets better" does not apply to the Mormon church. And powerful as the video statement is, it is an exercise in futility. Why? Because the Mormon church has no mechanism for doctrinal change. Aside from a "revelation" from God, their doctrine is open only to obedience, not to dispute. Mormonism has painted itself into a corner on this topic (and many others), and cannot back out. They have no means to retract what has been. Nor are they looking for one. So, you can comfort, console, affirm, weep with and otherwise soothe your gay children and yourself (as this video does), but nothing changes. You and your child are still at the margins; there is still no role for homosexual persons in the life of the church. Which is the aim, of course: Full participation and full worth in church life. Not even the false parity of separate-but-equal, but the real thing. All of it. Mormons have a theological glass ceiling through which gay persons may see, but not ascend. True, many in the church do see the evil of this, and there are "green shoots all over the place" just as you say, but until God speaks, the ceiling stays. "It gets better" does not apply to the Mormon church. Neither logic nor science nor tearful yearning will change that @palerobber:

I’ll stick with what I said.

Which was that “it gets better” does not apply to the Mormon church. And powerful as the video statement is, it is an exercise in futility.

Why?

Because the Mormon church has no mechanism for doctrinal change. Aside from a “revelation” from God, their doctrine is open only to obedience, not to dispute. Mormonism has painted itself into a corner on this topic (and many others), and cannot back out. They have no means to retract what has been.

Nor are they looking for one. So, you can comfort, console, affirm, weep with and otherwise soothe your gay children and yourself (as this video does), but nothing changes. You and your child are still at the margins; there is still no role for homosexual persons in the life of the church.

Which is the aim, of course: Full participation and full worth in church life. Not even the false parity of separate-but-equal, but the real thing. All of it.

Mormons have a theological glass ceiling through which gay persons may see, but not ascend. True, many in the church do see the evil of this, and there are “green shoots all over the place” just as you say, but until God speaks, the ceiling stays.

“It gets better” does not apply to the Mormon church. Neither logic nor science nor tearful yearning will change that

]]> By: Reed http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747/comment-page-1#comment-121995 Reed Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:49:02 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43747#comment-121995 Maybe it was the cellos, or the lighting, or the "same-sex attraction" buzzword near the beginning, but I found this depressing rather than uplifting. I hope these nice folks band together in some sort of Mormon PFLAG. Maybe it was the cellos, or the lighting, or the “same-sex attraction” buzzword near the beginning, but I found this depressing rather than uplifting.
I hope these nice folks band together in some sort of Mormon PFLAG.

]]> By: palerobber http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747/comment-page-1#comment-121990 palerobber Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:26:48 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43747#comment-121990 Jay: <blockquote>A lot of the kids these people say they love will wind up either killing themselves or hospitalized for depression [...]</blockquote> no shit, Jay. did you somehow miss the part of the video where the entire video was aimed at extending a hand of love, acceptance, and understanding to exactly those at-risk kids? Jay:

A lot of the kids these people say they love will wind up either killing themselves or hospitalized for depression [...]

no shit, Jay.

did you somehow miss the part of the video where the entire video was aimed at extending a hand of love, acceptance, and understanding to exactly those at-risk kids?

]]> By: palerobber http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747/comment-page-1#comment-121988 palerobber Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:12:50 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43747#comment-121988 first, the suggestion that LDS church PR people would foster or even smile upon a video like this is laughably ignorant. Soren is correct that these people in the video are still at the margins, but that *is* starting to change and Soren is demonstrably wrong that the LDS church -- as an institution and as members -- never gets better on this issue. there are signs of green shoots all over the place, but all people here want to do is piss on them. first, the suggestion that LDS church PR people would foster or even smile upon a video like this is laughably ignorant.

Soren is correct that these people in the video are still at the margins, but that *is* starting to change and Soren is demonstrably wrong that the LDS church — as an institution and as members — never gets better on this issue.

there are signs of green shoots all over the place, but all people here want to do is piss on them.

]]> By: Jay Jonson http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747/comment-page-1#comment-121975 Jay Jonson Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:44:47 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43747#comment-121975 More Mormon propaganda. These people do not speak for the Church. Indeed, they seem to endorse the Church's position. They speak of "same-sex attraction" as though homosexuality is a disease. While the individuals in this video may be sincere, they are merely pawns in a pr campaign to soften the image of the LDS Church in advance of the Romney campaign. It is outrageous that they have been able to highjack the "It Gets Better" project. A lot of the kids these people say they love will wind up either killing themselves or hospitalized for depression because they are encouraged to remain in the very circumstances that lead to their suicidal impulses: the spiritual terrorism practiced by the Mormon church. More Mormon propaganda. These people do not speak for the Church. Indeed, they seem to endorse the Church’s position. They speak of “same-sex attraction” as though homosexuality is a disease. While the individuals in this video may be sincere, they are merely pawns in a pr campaign to soften the image of the LDS Church in advance of the Romney campaign. It is outrageous that they have been able to highjack the “It Gets Better” project. A lot of the kids these people say they love will wind up either killing themselves or hospitalized for depression because they are encouraged to remain in the very circumstances that lead to their suicidal impulses: the spiritual terrorism practiced by the Mormon church.

]]> By: Soren456 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/04/23/43747/comment-page-1#comment-121951 Soren456 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:20:49 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43747#comment-121951 If you could say that these people abide anywhere near the heart of the church, this would be an overpowering statement. But they aren't at the heart of the church. Like their gay children, they are at the margins. And their statement is wrenching in its futility. "It gets better" does not apply to the Mormon church. If you could say that these people abide anywhere near the heart of the church, this would be an overpowering statement.

But they aren’t at the heart of the church. Like their gay children, they are at the margins. And their statement is wrenching in its futility.

“It gets better” does not apply to the Mormon church.

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