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	<title>Comments on: Grenell quits</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 07:39:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mike Airhart</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122701</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Airhart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 15:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122701</guid>
		<description>Speaking as an official spokesman for the left:

The left wants and needs gay voices like Fred Karger to restrain the lunacy that is overtaking the GOP.

When gay conservatives refuse to stand up to that lunacy, they facilitate and reward it. Likewise, when gay Democrats excuse bigotry within their own party as a supposed &quot;lesser evil,&quot; they facilitate and reward the cancerous growth within their own party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as an official spokesman for the left:</p>
<p>The left wants and needs gay voices like Fred Karger to restrain the lunacy that is overtaking the GOP.</p>
<p>When gay conservatives refuse to stand up to that lunacy, they facilitate and reward it. Likewise, when gay Democrats excuse bigotry within their own party as a supposed &#8220;lesser evil,&#8221; they facilitate and reward the cancerous growth within their own party.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122667</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 02:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122667</guid>
		<description>Grenell was hired, not put into service in his designated role and all the while received denouncements from within the Republican Party but no official statements of support.

It doesn&#039;t seem to me the views of the left had much to do with his resignation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grenell was hired, not put into service in his designated role and all the while received denouncements from within the Republican Party but no official statements of support.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t seem to me the views of the left had much to do with his resignation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122627</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 21:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122627</guid>
		<description>Old fable: A man has a bad day at work, so he&#039;s cruel to his wife.  Wife has a bad day, so she&#039;s cruel to the kids.  Kids have a bad day, so they kick the dog.  Dog has a bad day, so it bites... hurt feelings never seem to propagate in the direction that caused them when power structures are involved.

I still remember the day my state (Texas) passed an amendment outlawing gay marriage and civil unions.  Even though it was obviously going to pass and everybody knew it for weeks, I was very surprised at how viscerally I felt it, like the entire state had personally signed a letter to me that read, &quot;We don&#039;t like you, get out.&quot;

Is there any reason to multiply your list of villains by searching through the comments section of people&#039;s blogs?  The news today was about learning just what kind of hands are still powerful in GOP politics.  We do what we always do.  Learn, let go, move forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Old fable: A man has a bad day at work, so he&#8217;s cruel to his wife.  Wife has a bad day, so she&#8217;s cruel to the kids.  Kids have a bad day, so they kick the dog.  Dog has a bad day, so it bites&#8230; hurt feelings never seem to propagate in the direction that caused them when power structures are involved.</p>
<p>I still remember the day my state (Texas) passed an amendment outlawing gay marriage and civil unions.  Even though it was obviously going to pass and everybody knew it for weeks, I was very surprised at how viscerally I felt it, like the entire state had personally signed a letter to me that read, &#8220;We don&#8217;t like you, get out.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is there any reason to multiply your list of villains by searching through the comments section of people&#8217;s blogs?  The news today was about learning just what kind of hands are still powerful in GOP politics.  We do what we always do.  Learn, let go, move forward.</p>
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		<title>By: Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122618</link>
		<dc:creator>Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 19:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122618</guid>
		<description>Ah, the whiff of sanctimony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the whiff of sanctimony.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122616</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 19:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122616</guid>
		<description>David,

Thank you for your suggestions. I will accept them in the spirit with which they were offered and give them the consideration to which they are due.

I agree that it is best that we not be adversarial.  I am unaware of any unanswered questions but apologize if I have not addressed whichever question you are referring to.

Have a very lovely day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Thank you for your suggestions. I will accept them in the spirit with which they were offered and give them the consideration to which they are due.</p>
<p>I agree that it is best that we not be adversarial.  I am unaware of any unanswered questions but apologize if I have not addressed whichever question you are referring to.</p>
<p>Have a very lovely day.</p>
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		<title>By: David Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122605</link>
		<dc:creator>David Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 18:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122605</guid>
		<description>
	@Timothy
&lt;blockquote&gt;
	
		I marvel that you are unaware of any mistreatment of Grenell If you read above you’ll see a large number of quotes. I consider such treatment to be despicable (or,as I put it earlier,shitty).
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	I asked you a simple question to clarify my impression of your earlier statements.&#160; You could have simply answered directly.&#160; You would never let someone else get away with that.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
	
		If you do not, then you have changed more than I have been willing to recognize and that makes me very sad.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	Oh please, quit with the drama.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
	
		As for your counsel that I go mutter to myself out of the public eye, I can only say that I am delighted that I ignored such advice the last time it was offered and will do the same again.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	Here is what I said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
	
		I would also renew my suggestion of years ago, that you create a personal blog for a few of these issues.&#160; Some of what you write feels much more like it belongs in one, and the dynamic is different when it’s a personal space.&#160; I think you might find it helpful.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	How do you end up getting something negative out of that suggestion?&#160; Many people who write for a major site also keep personal blogs for those things that are less formal, less newsworthy or just plain too personal.&#160; It helps to be able to vent there.&#160; I thought before and now that it would help you do so.&#160; As I suspect you could link to it from here, it would hardly be &quot;out of the public eye.&quot;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
	
		Alas, I fear you won’t like the change at all, but I think that it will be well received by some.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	Whatever you write here is up to you and Jim&#160; Whether I am pleased or not is irrelevant.&#160; I was simply making a suggestion I thought would help you avoid some of the stress you described in a public post.

	You have started becoming passive-agressive and when you do that I feel like I&#039;m talking with an adversary and it&#039;s not a good feeling.&#160; If you would like to answer my original question above, I would like to see it.&#160; Otherwise, since I don&#039;t seem to be able to say anything that you don&#039;t view as negative, I will take my leave.

	&#160;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>	@Timothy</p>
<blockquote>
<p>		I marvel that you are unaware of any mistreatment of Grenell If you read above you’ll see a large number of quotes. I consider such treatment to be despicable (or,as I put it earlier,shitty).
</p></blockquote>
<p>	I asked you a simple question to clarify my impression of your earlier statements.&nbsp; You could have simply answered directly.&nbsp; You would never let someone else get away with that.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>		If you do not, then you have changed more than I have been willing to recognize and that makes me very sad.
</p></blockquote>
<p>	Oh please, quit with the drama.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>		As for your counsel that I go mutter to myself out of the public eye, I can only say that I am delighted that I ignored such advice the last time it was offered and will do the same again.
</p></blockquote>
<p>	Here is what I said:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>		I would also renew my suggestion of years ago, that you create a personal blog for a few of these issues.&nbsp; Some of what you write feels much more like it belongs in one, and the dynamic is different when it’s a personal space.&nbsp; I think you might find it helpful.
</p></blockquote>
<p>	How do you end up getting something negative out of that suggestion?&nbsp; Many people who write for a major site also keep personal blogs for those things that are less formal, less newsworthy or just plain too personal.&nbsp; It helps to be able to vent there.&nbsp; I thought before and now that it would help you do so.&nbsp; As I suspect you could link to it from here, it would hardly be &#8220;out of the public eye.&#8221;</p>
<blockquote>
<p>		Alas, I fear you won’t like the change at all, but I think that it will be well received by some.
</p></blockquote>
<p>	Whatever you write here is up to you and Jim&nbsp; Whether I am pleased or not is irrelevant.&nbsp; I was simply making a suggestion I thought would help you avoid some of the stress you described in a public post.</p>
<p>	You have started becoming passive-agressive and when you do that I feel like I&#8217;m talking with an adversary and it&#8217;s not a good feeling.&nbsp; If you would like to answer my original question above, I would like to see it.&nbsp; Otherwise, since I don&#8217;t seem to be able to say anything that you don&#8217;t view as negative, I will take my leave.</p>
<p>	&nbsp;</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122600</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 17:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122600</guid>
		<description>David,

I marvel that you are unaware of any mistreatment of Grenell  If you read above you&#039;ll see a large number of quotes. I consider such treatment to be despicable (or,as I put it earlier,shitty). 

If you do not, then you have changed more than I have been willing to recognize and that makes me very sad. 

As for your counsel that I go mutter to myself out of the public eye, I can only say that I am delighted that I ignored such advice the last time it was offered and will do the same again. It&#039;s clear that we do not agree on what is appropriate to be read by decent civil people over their morning coffee and crumpets. 

Actually, it is my intent to take my writing in a more personal direction. This is undoubtedly going to be at higher emotional risk, so I definitely need to rest and be in full preparedness. Alas, I fear you won&#039;t like the change at all, but I think that it will be well received by some. 

I wish you much continued success at your website and hope that you are living a life filled with happiness and peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I marvel that you are unaware of any mistreatment of Grenell  If you read above you&#8217;ll see a large number of quotes. I consider such treatment to be despicable (or,as I put it earlier,shitty). </p>
<p>If you do not, then you have changed more than I have been willing to recognize and that makes me very sad. </p>
<p>As for your counsel that I go mutter to myself out of the public eye, I can only say that I am delighted that I ignored such advice the last time it was offered and will do the same again. It&#8217;s clear that we do not agree on what is appropriate to be read by decent civil people over their morning coffee and crumpets. </p>
<p>Actually, it is my intent to take my writing in a more personal direction. This is undoubtedly going to be at higher emotional risk, so I definitely need to rest and be in full preparedness. Alas, I fear you won&#8217;t like the change at all, but I think that it will be well received by some. </p>
<p>I wish you much continued success at your website and hope that you are living a life filled with happiness and peace.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122583</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 16:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122583</guid>
		<description>Timothy said &quot;But I do know that he was treated very shitty by people who are so fucking self-righteous about their political affiliation that they think themselves noble and better when their behavior towards another human being is so despicable that it makes Linda Harvey and Peter LaBarbera look good by comparison.&quot;.

You throw around such absurd comparisons very lightly, it hurts your credibility.  No one here treats people so badly that they are as bad as Linda Harvey or Peter Labarbera much less so bad as to make them look good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy said &#8220;But I do know that he was treated very shitty by people who are so fucking self-righteous about their political affiliation that they think themselves noble and better when their behavior towards another human being is so despicable that it makes Linda Harvey and Peter LaBarbera look good by comparison.&#8221;.</p>
<p>You throw around such absurd comparisons very lightly, it hurts your credibility.  No one here treats people so badly that they are as bad as Linda Harvey or Peter Labarbera much less so bad as to make them look good.</p>
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		<title>By: jimb</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122560</link>
		<dc:creator>jimb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 12:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122560</guid>
		<description>Tim, Enjoy some time off.  I read your blog daily and love it.  Signed, a fan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, Enjoy some time off.  I read your blog daily and love it.  Signed, a fan.</p>
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		<title>By: David Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/01/43955/comment-page-1#comment-122558</link>
		<dc:creator>David Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 12:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=43955#comment-122558</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
	
		With respect – because you know I respect and love you – I think that you are doing going through a period in which you are so angry at being duped that you don’t have perspective. It’s common after a drastic change in view. No one is less forgiving than someone who once was what they now oppose.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	Now who is being condescending?&#160; Honestly, you are way off there, Timothy. I know that is the attitude you have been expecting, because you told me so, but I was disgusted with the GOP long before I left it. Maintaining my affiliation became more an exercise in self-hatred than political representation.&#160; Likewise, leaving was an excise in personal growth.

	That aside, I would agree that you probably need some time away.&#160; I would also renew my suggestion of years ago, that you create a personal blog for a few of these issues.&#160; Some of what you write feels much more like it belongs in one, and the dynamic is different when it&#039;s a personal space.&#160; I think you might find it helpful.

	If I could ask one more thing concerning the thread, please tell me exactly who you mean with this statement:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
	
		But I do know that he was treated very shitty by people who are so fucking self-righteous about their political affiliation that they think themselves noble and better when their behavior towards another human being is so despicable that it makes Linda Harvey and Peter LaBarbera look good by comparison.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	If you can clarify who the &quot;people&quot; are you mention there, I might better understand you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>		With respect – because you know I respect and love you – I think that you are doing going through a period in which you are so angry at being duped that you don’t have perspective. It’s common after a drastic change in view. No one is less forgiving than someone who once was what they now oppose.
</p></blockquote>
<p>	Now who is being condescending?&nbsp; Honestly, you are way off there, Timothy. I know that is the attitude you have been expecting, because you told me so, but I was disgusted with the GOP long before I left it. Maintaining my affiliation became more an exercise in self-hatred than political representation.&nbsp; Likewise, leaving was an excise in personal growth.</p>
<p>	That aside, I would agree that you probably need some time away.&nbsp; I would also renew my suggestion of years ago, that you create a personal blog for a few of these issues.&nbsp; Some of what you write feels much more like it belongs in one, and the dynamic is different when it&#8217;s a personal space.&nbsp; I think you might find it helpful.</p>
<p>	If I could ask one more thing concerning the thread, please tell me exactly who you mean with this statement:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>		But I do know that he was treated very shitty by people who are so fucking self-righteous about their political affiliation that they think themselves noble and better when their behavior towards another human being is so despicable that it makes Linda Harvey and Peter LaBarbera look good by comparison.
</p></blockquote>
<p>	If you can clarify who the &#8220;people&#8221; are you mention there, I might better understand you.</p>
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