They started it, case closed.

You are entitled to your own opinion on the matter.

Its not a presumption, nor a matter of opinion or perspective, its an objective fact: When gays asked for the same rights they had they stood up and said “No way, we will do everything in our power to deny you the rights we have.”.

They started it case closed. I know you like to paint the bigots in the most positive light you can but that won’t change the reality.

Timothy said “Those who think that society will be greatly harmed by social acceptance of homosexuality would say that “homosexual activists started it and everything was fine until they started marching in the streets and having sex in the bushes”. And they would argue that their actions are anything but unprovoked.”.

They might think that, but they’d be wrong. They first stood up to oppose gays having the same rights they have, gays NEVER opposed their rights. There are no shades of grey here, it is black and white.

Timothy said “And “yes, but homosexual is harmless”, while a belief I agree with, is not an objective and obvious truth.”.

That gayness in a committed monogamous relationship is harmless is an objective and obvious truth, that’s why the anti-gays always lie and equate gayness with promiscuity and that is why the APA says gayness is a normal and healthy variant of human sexuality.

Timothy said “And if that is the foundation of your argument, it seems to be little more than “I’m entitled to hate the people with whom I disagree, they are not entitled to hate me.””.

Its time you stopped mischaracterizing my arguments, motivations, and who I am. My argument is that I’m entitled to hate the people who who have tried to and who have succeeded in harming me and if they wish to hate me I couldn’t care less. So stop pretending otherwise.

Timothy said “But that really isn’t my point. I’m addressing the absurdity of objecting to a quality in others while engaging in that quality oneself. And never seeing the irony.”.

That’s like saying violence is always wrong so when someone tries to murder you its absurd to respond with violence. I don’t buy what you’re selling in the slightest. When someone tries to harm innocent me, you’re daman right I’m going to hate them and I am fully justified in doing so.

Timothy said “If hating is acceptable and no one who harms others has a right not to be hated, then why do we think that calling someone a H8ter is an insult?”.

I never said calling someone a hater was an insult. I couldn’t care less if the bigots call me a hater, I do hate them and I wear that label proudly and justifiably.

Timothy said “The people who fling out “H8ter” do so as though the act of hating makes one a lesser person. Whether or not being a hater makes one a lesser person is entirely dependent on why one hates. When one hates innocent people because giving them equality makes them feel lowered on the totem pole to those people’s level being a hater does make one a lesser person. When one hates innocent people because one finds their harmless behavior icky than being a hater makes one a lesser person. When one hates people guilty of harming the innocent being a hater does not make one a lesser person. When one hates the person who murdered her husband hating the murdere does not make one a lesser person.

When one kills the innocent it makes one a lesser person. When one kills the person who first tried to kill you that does not make one a lesser person. It all depends on who started it and if you want to pretend there’s any debate about that go ahead I see no point in arguing with you further.

Your arguments act as though your presumptions are objective. It’s a given (to you) that they started it, that the anti-gays hit us first.

But who really started it? That’s a matter of opinion and perspective.

Those who think that society will be greatly harmed by social acceptance of homosexuality would say that “homosexual activists started it and everything was fine until they started marching in the streets and having sex in the bushes”. And they would argue that their actions are anything but unprovoked.

And “yes, but homosexual is harmless”, while a belief I agree with, is not an objective and obvious truth. And if that is the foundation of your argument, it seems to be little more than “I’m entitled to hate the people with whom I disagree, they are not entitled to hate me.”

But that really isn’t my point. I’m addressing the absurdity of objecting to a quality in others while engaging in that quality oneself. And never seeing the irony.

If hating is acceptable and no one who harms others has a right not to be hated, then why do we think that calling someone a H8ter is an insult?

The people who fling out “H8ter” do so as though the act of hating makes one a lesser person. Why do we object to Miss Sanctimonious? Because she hates!!

Which is really a pointless accusation if oneself also hates.

This is not an EQUAL balance of harms here.

More to the point of Romney and his assault on and contempt of kids he thought were gay: he wasn’t an adolescent. He was old enough to understand the gravity of what he did. He just didn’t care and never had to.
It wasn’t so long ago, we can forget it. It was a window into his character as a person indifferent to inflicting pain, or seeing pain in others. As long as his target is weaker and more easily kept down.
He supports civil and political policy that keeps gay people down. He’s adamant about doing so with the power of the office of POTUS.
He gave an address at one of THE most virulently anti gay universities in the country that assures he does not see gay people as equally needful of protections and rights.

I noticed too, that entire of the faculty didn’t seem to include people of color.
And I was hard pressed to find that many in the audience of graduates.
LU was founded by a racist, and even if they have some people of color who attend or work at that university, they aren’t in positions of high influence or visibility.
We can see right into Romney’s soul. He’s an indifferent sociopath (people only concerned with their own power and comforts and will do anything to get them). He’s dangerous and not the kind of person who should be President.

I agree Jpeckjr – you made great sense in your comment.

Even if the teenage mother and father marry before the baby is born, the likelihood of poverty increases because of the education factor.

People who are employed are less likely to live in poverty than people who are unemployed. Educated people are more likely to be employed.

We’re back to stupid, lazy, horny straight high school students are the reason gay people can’t get married, according to Mr. Romney.

It’s not that I fail to see the logic in this, it’s that there is no logic.

This study is more supportive of distributing contraceptives to high school students than it is for opposing marriage equality.

Anyway, I think going after Mr. Romney for making no sense is more productive than going after him for having a polygamous ancestor.

It is okay to hate haters, for this reason: They have unprovoked taken actions to harm the LGBT community, hating those who’ve harmed or attempted to harm you is justified. No one who harms others has a right not to be hated. People can pretend they don’t hate others, just their actions, but that’s B.S. Our actions are not divorced from who we are as people, our actions spring directly from who we are. If you hate a person’s actions you necessarily hate at least some aspect of who that person is. There is no such thing as “Hate the sin and love the sinner.”.

Timothy said “People just wont take us serious if we play the game of the kid in the back seat saying, “mom, he hit me” when we’re doing just as much hitting.”.

I’ll never understand those who have no concern for “who started it” and pretend its a childish irrelevance. “Who started it” is a foundational concern in justice, it is NOT a game. If someone attacks me and tries to kill me I’m justified in killing them, they are NOT justified in killing me. When the anti-gays hit us first we are justified in hitting them in response, they are NOT justified in hitting us.