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	<title>Comments on: What Makes Paul Cameron Tick?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-124145</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 16:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-124145</guid>
		<description>Joe,

&lt;i&gt;He has confused abuse with homosexuality.&lt;/i&gt;

I think that says WAY more about the entire anti-gay mindset than first glance suggests.  Truly, I think that they do equate the two.

How often do we read about adults looking for boys to &quot;indoctrinate into the homosexual lifestyle&quot;.  In their minds, it is always a form or rape or seduction.  There is always a power disparity.  There is always a nefarious motivation involving the abuse - either physical or psychological - of an innocent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p><i>He has confused abuse with homosexuality.</i></p>
<p>I think that says WAY more about the entire anti-gay mindset than first glance suggests.  Truly, I think that they do equate the two.</p>
<p>How often do we read about adults looking for boys to &#8220;indoctrinate into the homosexual lifestyle&#8221;.  In their minds, it is always a form or rape or seduction.  There is always a power disparity.  There is always a nefarious motivation involving the abuse &#8211; either physical or psychological &#8211; of an innocent.</p>
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		<title>By: F Young</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123951</link>
		<dc:creator>F Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 10:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123951</guid>
		<description>=Ben in Oakland
&quot;...but one thing stands out for me: you’re assuming that cameron is telling the truth about being molested as a child. Given his penchant for lying about everything else, I don’t know if i would accept that assertion.&quot;

Yes, for what it&#039;s worth, I too agree that deceit is as good an explanation as any for claims by Cameron (and other professional anti-gay leaders) that they are victims of child abuse. 

One should never assume they are telling the truth as if they were normal moral people, as opposed to greedy, unprincipled, even sociopathic, manipulators. 

Stories of child abuse are so convenient and self-serving for people who have made a full-fledged career out of their anti-gay agenda. By claiming to be victims, they can deny taking full responsibility for their hate and greed.

Of course, I don&#039;t know that Cameron was lying. I suspect that being a victim of child abuse is more common that we would like to think, among both homosexuals and heterosexuals. 

But that doesn&#039;t mean I should assume that he was telling the truth. Given Cameron&#039;s lifelong history of deceit, I don&#039;t think it is safe to assume that, for this one thing, he was honest. 

If he was, it might be in the same way that a stopped clock tells the true time twice a day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>=Ben in Oakland<br />
&#8220;&#8230;but one thing stands out for me: you’re assuming that cameron is telling the truth about being molested as a child. Given his penchant for lying about everything else, I don’t know if i would accept that assertion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, for what it&#8217;s worth, I too agree that deceit is as good an explanation as any for claims by Cameron (and other professional anti-gay leaders) that they are victims of child abuse. </p>
<p>One should never assume they are telling the truth as if they were normal moral people, as opposed to greedy, unprincipled, even sociopathic, manipulators. </p>
<p>Stories of child abuse are so convenient and self-serving for people who have made a full-fledged career out of their anti-gay agenda. By claiming to be victims, they can deny taking full responsibility for their hate and greed.</p>
<p>Of course, I don&#8217;t know that Cameron was lying. I suspect that being a victim of child abuse is more common that we would like to think, among both homosexuals and heterosexuals. </p>
<p>But that doesn&#8217;t mean I should assume that he was telling the truth. Given Cameron&#8217;s lifelong history of deceit, I don&#8217;t think it is safe to assume that, for this one thing, he was honest. </p>
<p>If he was, it might be in the same way that a stopped clock tells the true time twice a day.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Kort</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123928</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Kort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 03:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123928</guid>
		<description>THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Jim for saying this. I have always said that most of the people who are antigay have been sexually abused. And now that Cameron has come out about this his behaviors do make sense. He has confused abuse with homosexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Jim for saying this. I have always said that most of the people who are antigay have been sexually abused. And now that Cameron has come out about this his behaviors do make sense. He has confused abuse with homosexuality.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Sloan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123884</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Sloan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 16:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123884</guid>
		<description>I used to facilitate a men&#039;s discussion group at our GLBT community center in Sacramento. I was shocked at one discussion when the subject about molestation came up that about 25 % of the men said they had been molested as children. Over the years further inquires have come up with similar figures. This of course is not a scientific study simply an observation of a gay man who has been out for 52 years. I never experienced any molestation as a child or teen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to facilitate a men&#8217;s discussion group at our GLBT community center in Sacramento. I was shocked at one discussion when the subject about molestation came up that about 25 % of the men said they had been molested as children. Over the years further inquires have come up with similar figures. This of course is not a scientific study simply an observation of a gay man who has been out for 52 years. I never experienced any molestation as a child or teen.</p>
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		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123879</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 12:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123879</guid>
		<description>Well speaking from a straight woman&#039;s perspective his story about a stranger woman taking him into her apartment and-

&quot;after his family had moved from Pittsburgh to Florida, when a female stranger lured him into her apartment, gave him a bath and “fiddled” with his genitals.

“I remember that one more fondly,” Cameron says with a laugh. “I went out and looked for her apartment afterwards–never did find it, though. I had a much more positive experience with the woman. I thought it was a rather pleasant experience.” 

From a straight woman&#039;s perspective I find that story REALLY suspect. Between the 2 stories, the lured into a woman&#039;s apartment story is by far the least credible. I can imagine an older boy picking on a younger boy in an apple orchard with no one around. BUT the story about an adult woman who lures him into her apartment to give him a bath seems wildly unbelievable. We know that stranger assault is rare. Even rarer is stranger women who assault little boys. Finally the ending of how he goes back looking for the apartment but gosh darn it can&#039;t find it is, well, a fantasy. 

What Cameron describes with the stranger woman IMHO is a fantasy. It seems reasonable to me that if he was sexually assaulted in the apple orchard, that as an adult when he flashed back to that memory he conjured up a completely opposite fantasy memory to stop the hurting, the nice woman fantasy. I have never been a boy so I can&#039;t relate so much to the boy on boy assault in the apple orchard, and have no experience with psychology or really even an interest in it, but I am a straight woman and the story about a complete stranger woman doing this to him as a 5 year old seems to me to be so so so rare as to be unbelievable. 

If he had a pleasant experience with the woman and she must have also (if true story) then she would have found him again. It is very rare for child sexual abusers to assault just one time and then it never happens again, especially if the first sexual assault is undiscovered. The fact that he says he never found her again (and therefore she never found him again) is highly suspect. IF true this woman had a willing victim she would have gone back for more.

Much more likely is that the woman who gave me a pleasant bath is a fantasy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well speaking from a straight woman&#8217;s perspective his story about a stranger woman taking him into her apartment and-</p>
<p>&#8220;after his family had moved from Pittsburgh to Florida, when a female stranger lured him into her apartment, gave him a bath and “fiddled” with his genitals.</p>
<p>“I remember that one more fondly,” Cameron says with a laugh. “I went out and looked for her apartment afterwards–never did find it, though. I had a much more positive experience with the woman. I thought it was a rather pleasant experience.” </p>
<p>From a straight woman&#8217;s perspective I find that story REALLY suspect. Between the 2 stories, the lured into a woman&#8217;s apartment story is by far the least credible. I can imagine an older boy picking on a younger boy in an apple orchard with no one around. BUT the story about an adult woman who lures him into her apartment to give him a bath seems wildly unbelievable. We know that stranger assault is rare. Even rarer is stranger women who assault little boys. Finally the ending of how he goes back looking for the apartment but gosh darn it can&#8217;t find it is, well, a fantasy. </p>
<p>What Cameron describes with the stranger woman IMHO is a fantasy. It seems reasonable to me that if he was sexually assaulted in the apple orchard, that as an adult when he flashed back to that memory he conjured up a completely opposite fantasy memory to stop the hurting, the nice woman fantasy. I have never been a boy so I can&#8217;t relate so much to the boy on boy assault in the apple orchard, and have no experience with psychology or really even an interest in it, but I am a straight woman and the story about a complete stranger woman doing this to him as a 5 year old seems to me to be so so so rare as to be unbelievable. </p>
<p>If he had a pleasant experience with the woman and she must have also (if true story) then she would have found him again. It is very rare for child sexual abusers to assault just one time and then it never happens again, especially if the first sexual assault is undiscovered. The fact that he says he never found her again (and therefore she never found him again) is highly suspect. IF true this woman had a willing victim she would have gone back for more.</p>
<p>Much more likely is that the woman who gave me a pleasant bath is a fantasy.</p>
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		<title>By: Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123870</link>
		<dc:creator>Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 04:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123870</guid>
		<description>Stephan, I must address your statement that a four year old cannot accommodate an adult male&#039;s penis in his mouth. As we all know every penis is at least 12&quot; by 9&quot; and ever time oral sex is performed it&#039;s always by shoving said penis all the way down the receptive partner&#039;s throat!

We don&#039;t know what went on, but it is perfectly logical for Cameron to have been orally raped. We don&#039;t know how large the penis was, or if the entire length was involved. Perhaps just the glans went in, perhaps the penis was a mere 4 inches, so please, stop with the nonsense that it was physically impossible.

Even if it did happen it&#039;s no excuse for all the lies Cameron has told and all the hateful things he&#039;s spewed. It&#039;s time for him to own up to his behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephan, I must address your statement that a four year old cannot accommodate an adult male&#8217;s penis in his mouth. As we all know every penis is at least 12&#8243; by 9&#8243; and ever time oral sex is performed it&#8217;s always by shoving said penis all the way down the receptive partner&#8217;s throat!</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know what went on, but it is perfectly logical for Cameron to have been orally raped. We don&#8217;t know how large the penis was, or if the entire length was involved. Perhaps just the glans went in, perhaps the penis was a mere 4 inches, so please, stop with the nonsense that it was physically impossible.</p>
<p>Even if it did happen it&#8217;s no excuse for all the lies Cameron has told and all the hateful things he&#8217;s spewed. It&#8217;s time for him to own up to his behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123868</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 03:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123868</guid>
		<description>Stephen said &quot;He said the man put his penis, presumably erect if he was being raped, in his mouth when he was 4. I’m saying it’s physically impossible and that he’s a liar.&quot;.

I don&#039;t believe that would be in any way physically impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen said &#8220;He said the man put his penis, presumably erect if he was being raped, in his mouth when he was 4. I’m saying it’s physically impossible and that he’s a liar.&#8221;.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that would be in any way physically impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123863</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 03:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123863</guid>
		<description>Actually Stephen, that is not &lt;em&gt;exactly&lt;/em&gt; what he claimed. Read it again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Stephen, that is not <em>exactly</em> what he claimed. Read it again.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123862</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 03:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123862</guid>
		<description>&#039;As I’m sure everyone here well understands, oral sex for a four year old does not require taking an adult erect penis on one’s mouth.&#039;

That is exactly what he claimed happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;As I’m sure everyone here well understands, oral sex for a four year old does not require taking an adult erect penis on one’s mouth.&#8217;</p>
<p>That is exactly what he claimed happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/18/44563/comment-page-1#comment-123861</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 03:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44563#comment-123861</guid>
		<description>Jim: it&#039;s &#039;Stephen&#039;. &#039;ph&#039; not &#039;v&#039;.

That&#039;s his story. He said the man put his penis, presumably erect if he was being raped, in his mouth when he was 4. I&#039;m saying it&#039;s physically impossible and that he&#039;s a liar.

This has nothing to do with the reality of child abuse. This has to do with the anti-gay industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim: it&#8217;s &#8216;Stephen&#8217;. &#8216;ph&#8217; not &#8216;v&#8217;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s his story. He said the man put his penis, presumably erect if he was being raped, in his mouth when he was 4. I&#8217;m saying it&#8217;s physically impossible and that he&#8217;s a liar.</p>
<p>This has nothing to do with the reality of child abuse. This has to do with the anti-gay industry.</p>
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